Musical memory?

[dlstyley]

I'm trying to improve my ear through practicing playing along with songs. Doing this got me to thinking about "musical memory", a term a former band mate used regarding the ability to hear a passage and then be able to recall it correctly. We had a drummer who could listen one time to practically anything and then sing it back, regardless how long or complex - like photographic memory for hearing (he was also a phenomenal sax player).

Anyway, when thinking about how good your ears are, how much of it is being able to "hear" it, and how much of it is being able to remember what you heard? Obviously you have to do both, but I think I actually struggle more with the latter as I have really bad memory that also creeps up sometimes when performing where I might forget where we are in a song or what comes next. I've been able to overcome most of that through lots of practice, but I definitely seem to struggle compared to others when it comes to musical memory.

Any tips on improving in this are, or are you born with it?

[Donny Bassman]

I have alot of the same problem. My memory is terrible. I find that most of the time i just make stuff up as i go because i cant rember how i played it last time. This turns out great sometimes because my licks seem to improve every time i play them. Sorry i dont have any good solutions for you, tho i have started taking vidimin B complex for my memory. Seems to be helping.

[dlstyley]

I hear you about making it up as you go. That worked well until we started recording, at which point there was "evidence". do you have trouble picking out baselines by ear? I'll try the vitamins.

[Stumbo]

Originally Posted by dlstyley

I'll try the vitamins.

+100

Here's what I did to improve my memory(musical and otherwise):
Daily D3 (2k iu)
Super B complex for about 4 mos.

Then daily D3 1k iu and Super B weekly.

No multivitamin even though my wife takes one in addition to the extra supplements. I also spent more time in the sun during the summer. Also, 2k iu D3 daily during the winter.

Sometimes D3 can gives me "brain fog". I'll reduce the dose until I'm okay. Remember, there are potential side effects for everything!

Results: increased/enhanced creativity and memory recall. Way less fatigue during the day.

One other thing that can increase your brain power is to make sure you get great sleep - up to 8 hours. If you're not dreaming, you're not getting good sleep or if you feel "unrefreshed" even though you've slept for 6-8 hours.

Drink water regularly. Eat more vegetables.

Good luck.

P.S. Check with your Dr. before embarking on anything new like this, even for over the counter stuff.

[Donny Bassman]

Originally Posted by dlstyley

I hear you about making it up as you go. That worked well until we started recording, at which point there was "evidence". do you have trouble picking out baselines by ear? I'll try the vitamins.

Once i find the rout i can figure out most of it. But sometimes i have truble finding the right key. I think thats just because of my inexpearence. I can easly distengwish pitch change, and i know how many steeps up or down it goes. (As for spelling you might have noticed by now i didnt retain much in school)

[Fergie Fulton]

The basis you are looking for one you bass is to know what all the notes on the neck sound like, not where they are or being able to name them, but what they sound like.

That means in practice you listen to what you play, that is harder than you think to do, but one learned it is easy to do.
In listening to your playing you are hearing the note quality, and its interval relation to those around it. You have 12 notes and 40+ pitches separated by semi-tones either side of them to the next note. Then you have them in chord quality ( the notes that define chords when played together).

In learning we have a natural ability to mimic, remember and recall, its how we learned to talk, walk etc. In music it is no different, you hear a song and you remember it, whistle, or hum it. Your brain has learned through out your life where all the "notes" are in you vocal chords through constant use so the brain can access the pitches you hear. On the bass the brain has no access to the notes, so no access to the pitches, so you cannot play it...unless you know what the notes on the neck sound like and where they are.

Practice scales, triads and arpeggios and listen to them and the relation between the notes (the intervals) and hum the note as you play it. If you can learn to relate your ability to hear and hum then to hear and play will follow. How good you get at it is another matter, but you will learn to hear.

[MalcolmAmos]

Originally Posted by Snake Doctor

There are many ways to train your ears, but you want to strive for is hearing pitches in relation to the key you are in. This is what is known as relative pitch. You can develop this by practice; nobody is born with a gift to hear music- it's all developed.
Here is a good software program that is free:

http://www.miles.be/software/4-funct...-trainer-basic

On this site, there are other programs that you can download. Heed my words and only download the "Basic" program. Just scroll down the page and you will see a box that says DOWNLOAD NOW. Click on that and follow the instructions.

This program has a few options, but the way you want to set this up is for it to play a Major Cadence in C (only); on the lefthand side you will see a list of all the chromatic tones- tick every box; just to the right you will see a box that says "only in one octave"- make sure that box is unticked. Hit the start button and follow this procedure:
1) Listen to the cadence
2) Hear the pitch that is played
3) Name the note (do not try to sing the pitch; do not use the method of recognising intervals with the first two pitches of a tune, just name the pitch. If you don't know it, then guess)
4) Repeat this process until you have done 100 questions to get your average. You must stick to this exercise ONLY until you are getting 100% of the questions right!

The more you keep the sounds of these pitches in your short term memory, the easier it will be for this information to transmute into your long term memory. Do not get frustrated- stick with this exercise until you get 100%. For many, this could turn into years of work.

Peace

Joe

OK I downloaded it, but, can not find where it is now or how to turn it on and use it.

Little help please.

[MalcolmAmos]

Got it, thanks.

Malcolm

[HeadyVan Halen]

Vitamins?


How 'bout massive amounts of stimulants. That'll help you focus. Now as far as the other aspects of life, well, there's a trade-off in everything kind sir.

[Jim Nazium]

Originally Posted by dlstyley

... when thinking about how good your ears are, how much of it is being able to "hear" it, and how much of it is being able to remember what you heard? ...
Any tips on improving in this area, or are you born with it?

To your first question, I think both are related, and it has to do with what I will very unscientifically call "chunks".

Think of it this way: when you first learned to read, you had to learn each letter, and spell out each word. C - A - T = cat, etc. Then as you learned more, you learned to recognize whole words at once, and later you learned to recognice whole phrases at once.

I think the same process takes place for hearing and remembering music. At first, you have to puzzle out each note and each fingering. As you get more experienced, you can hear and remember an entire musical phrase as a single unit. You have learned to process bigger "chunks".

To your second question, are you born with it? Absolutley not. Some people may be naturally more gifted and able to learn the skill more quickly than others, but it' still a learned skill.

[Rusty the Scoob]

Originally Posted by Jim Nazium

To your first question, I think both are related, and it has to do with what I will very unscientifically call "chunks".

Think of it this way: when you first learned to read, you had to learn each letter, and spell out each word. C - A - T = cat, etc. Then as you learned more, you learned to recognize whole words at once, and later you learned to recognice whole phrases at once.

I think the same process takes place for hearing and remembering music. At first, you have to puzzle out each note and each fingering. As you get more experienced, you can hear and remember an entire musical phrase as a single unit. You have learned to process bigger "chunks".

To your second question, are you born with it? Absolutley not. Some people may be naturally more gifted and able to learn the skill more quickly than others, but it' still a learned skill.

Good post by Jim.

The "Cat" analogy is good, so I'll expand on it. A lot of the skill of good musical memory is really the ability to understand the music that you're hearing at first listen.

When you were learning to read you saw the letters C, A and T and thought about how they should sound together, replayed that sound in your head or out loud, considered what that sound meant, remembered it was an animal, then pictured a house cat.

Now you see the word Cat and instantly think of petting little fluffy, know that they're smallish domesticated mammals, communicate by purring and meowing, live 15-20 years, etc. You recall a wealth of information in an instant by seeing the same three letters that required some work to translate when you were a child.

Music is the same way. The deeper, broader and quicker your understanding of music, the easier it will be to remember a bassline on first hearing. Instead of thinking:

"first fret on the A string, then an open D string, then the third fret on the D string, then the first fret on the D string, an open G string, then third fret on the G string",

you can think: "Bb, then D, then an F, followed by an Eb, a G and another Bb, gotta remember all that"

or: "Bb triad arpeggio followed by an Eb triad arpeggio",

or even "I-V arpeggios in Bb, no problem what's next?"

It's an overly simplistic example, but you can see how twelve pieces of information reduces to six pieces of information or two pieces or even one. The person who can reduce twelve pieces of musical information to one can remember twelve times as much music with the same mental effort.

[Muzoid]

My musical memory is insanely good....and for some strange reason, I retain every single phone number I've ever dialed in my life.

I attribute some of my musical memory, to being obsessed with the game Simon, as a kid/teen. My daughter has one now, and you can definitely notice her musical memory improving.

Get One!!!!

They have a pocket size one for less than $10 at The Source/Circuit City

(this would get my highest recommendation)

[Already In Use]

Originally Posted by MalcolmAmos

OK I downloaded it, but, can not find where it is now or how to turn it on and use it.

Little help please.

I downloaded the program. Its way cool. I'm better at this than I thought. Very cool concept. Thanks.

[Stumbo]

Snake Doctor....nobody is born with a gift to hear music- it's all developed.

I suggest a reading of Musicophilia by Oliver Sacks may be enlightening.

People are limited by their physiology.

[BullHorn]

I've always had great musical memory even before I played an instrument. I sometimes remember a song in my head that I heard like 5 years ago a few times and I can immediately sing it and shortly - play it on the bass, after a bit of tinkering with the right key and note changes.

I thought I was weird but I guess I'm not alone.

[Stumbo]

Originally Posted by Muzoid

My musical memory is insanely good....and for some strange reason, I retain every single phone number I've ever dialed in my life.

Originally Posted by BullHorn

I've always had great musical memory even before I played an instrument. I sometimes remember a song in my head that I heard like 5 years ago a few times and I can immediately sing it and shortly - play it on the bass, after a bit of tinkering with the right key and note changes.

I thought I was weird but I guess I'm not alone.

My wife has musical memory skills like that.

IME, these skills, as described, are not "developed" over time by 10,000 hours of practice or even 1 hour of practice.

Impossible to compete with for those that weren't born with it. Sure, you can develop some skills, but only to the limits of what you're born with. Otherwise there would be a whole lot more Jimi's, Clapton's, Jaco's and James' or {insert the name of your favorite music icon here}.

So, just enjoy the journey and don't worry about others skills.

[tangentmusic]

Repetition is the Mother of Retention.

The more you do something, the more second nature it becomes.

Woodshed time is time well spent.

[dlstyley]

I appreciate all the thoughts. The post about reducing the "number" of pieces of information through a better understanding and application of theory makes sense. That said, a few others confirm my suspicion that some are born with "audiographic" memory. At least maybe theory can help me compensate.

[grifff]

For some reason when I listen to music I listen to all the parts at the same time. I'll think in my head "oh there's that little offbeat drum fill" and then I'll know what will come next. I think hearing the "whole picture" helps me a lot in my musical memory.

I have never really had any trouble remembering songs though, maybe it was because I started memorizing piano recital pieces around age 6 that helped me retain some of the same skill.

I will also practice without my instrument. I'll be in the car and I'll try to remember my next recital piece, where my fingers go and the sounds, in order to make my practice time more effective when I'm around my instrument.

[Rusty the Scoob]

Originally Posted by dlstyley

I appreciate all the thoughts. The post about reducing the "number" of pieces of information through a better understanding and application of theory makes sense. That said, a few others confirm my suspicion that some are born with "audiographic" memory. At least maybe theory can help me compensate.

Everybody's born with different levels of different skills, but you can absolutely improve upon what you have. Years ago I'd be the only guy in the band with cheat sheets... now I'm the only guy in the (new) band without cheat sheets.

There's something to be said for improving your memory by good old-fashioned excercising it, too. Learn songs, memorize them, then keep learning more songs and gradually it gets easier. It probably builds neural pathways or something... whatever the science is, it works.