My ear?

[dlloyd]

Originally Posted by Oysterman

If you don't get it, it might help to know that for ear training exercises like this, keys are irrelevant. Utterly and completely.

For relative pitch recognition and in context of the original post in this thread, I agree. Keys are irrelevant.

However, Nick was asking about key signatures in another thread, it'd be useful if he indulged himself in the exercise.

To answer the original post:

Originally Posted by Nick

I have a very bad ear indeed, I try and try to improve it but can't.

Nick, you would really benefit from singing scales. The whole do re mi thing. Sing as you're playing the scales on the bass. Forwards and backwards. That's the first step. Then try arpeggios.

Another useful thing would be to tune your bass by ear rather than using an electronic tuner.

I've never seen anything in bass grades that says you HAVE to have a good ear to pass the grade.......

I've never been to a jam or audition when they've asked me what grade I am. The only thing people care about is if you can play and if you have a good ear. Because if you don't have a good ear, you're not a good musician.

[Nickthebassist]

Thanks guys, I had a music lesson today and I've finally nailed some of it. +2+2+1+2+2+2+1 from the root to find the ntoes in a major scale! Isn't that right? And my teacher taught me it, It's just I've had 6 months to forget it!

[Nickthebassist]

Originally Posted by dlloyd

For relative pitch recognition and in context of the original post in this thread, I agree. Keys are irrelevant.

However, Nick was asking about key signatures in another thread, it'd be useful if he indulged himself in the exercise.

To answer the original post:



Nick, you would really benefit from singing scales. The whole do re mi thing. Sing as you're playing the scales on the bass. Forwards and backwards. That's the first step. Then try arpeggios.

Another useful thing would be to tune your bass by ear rather than using an electronic tuner.



I've never been to a jam or audition when they've asked me what grade I am. The only thing people care about is if you can play and if you have a good ear. Because if you don't have a good ear, you're not a good musician.

I CAN tune my bass by ear. As long as one string is in tune, I can tune my bass by ear.

[dlloyd]

Originally Posted by Nickthebassist

I CAN tune my bass by ear. As long as one string is in tune, I can tune my bass by ear.

What I was saying was to always tune by ear. Only use an electronic tuner when playing with others or for accurate adjustments when you're setting intonation. Believe it or not, the listening you do when tuning your bass is good basic ear training.

[dlloyd]

Originally Posted by Nickthebassist

Thanks guys, I had a music lesson today and I've finally nailed some of it. +2+2+1+2+2+2+1 from the root to find the ntoes in a major scale! Isn't that right?

That's a start. Now try writing down the names of notes in the major scales starting from G and C.

[Nickthebassist]

+2 +2 +1 +2 +2 +2 +1
G A B C D E F# G

+2 +2 +1 +2 +2 +2 +1
C D E F G A B C


TA DA!

[dlloyd]

Originally Posted by Nickthebassist

+2 +2 +1 +2 +2 +2 +1
G A B C D E F# G

+2 +2 +1 +2 +2 +2 +1
C D E F G A B C


TA DA!

Good.

When you read standard notation, at the beginning of each stave, you'll see first of all a bar line, then a clef (usually a bass clef for us... that's the thing that looks like a back to front C with two dots after it), then the key signature. On the first stave you'll also see the time signature.

The key signature will usually have either sharps (#), flats (b) or neither in it. The key signature gives you an indication of what key you're in:

If it has neither, it's easy... you're either in C major or its relative minor, A minor.

If it has one sharp, as you've figured out, you'll be in G major or its relative minor, E minor.

Got that so far?

[Nickthebassist]

It's starting to make sense. I havent been taught how to work minors out yet(I'm gonna be getting taught), but jsut not yet.

[dlloyd]

Originally Posted by Nickthebassist

It's starting to make sense. I havent been taught how to work minors out yet(I'm gonna be getting taught), but jsut not yet.

I'll post more on this tomorrow morning. For the moment, try writing out the notes in the major scale starting from each note.

[Mike Flynn]

This is going to sound really obvious to some, and I think sometimes my own ear lets me down, but not very often these days - but the really fundamental difference between major and minor is the sound of a major and minor third and seventh - if you can begin to identify these and relate the sounds back to a fragment of a scale - then you should be able to establish what key you are hearing pretty quickly. I do this a lot and the two most obvious ones to work on are the root to third of the scale - and then the seventh to the octave. Once you get into these two starting points you can at the very least tell if the key is major, minor, or dominant - then you have to start getting into the other permiatations - i.e. flattened fifths or raised fourths, sharp/flat 9s (or 2s) etc - but a good start is major or minor - hearing those two should get you started in most situations. Fully studying scales is obviously essential - and singing is a great way to internalise the sounds of the different intervals.

Apologies to advanced music theory majors out there for the slightly simplistic explanation.

[dlloyd]

Originally Posted by dlloyd

I'll post more on this tomorrow morning. For the moment, try writing out the notes in the major scale starting from each note.

Nick, for more on the key stuff, go here...

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=146413

[GobyWan]

Originally Posted by urb_munki

the really fundamental difference between major and minor is the sound of a major and minor third and seventh

Not quite - it's the third and the sixth that define the key, not the 7th (which varies depending on whether or not you're using the harmonic minor or natural minor scale, but that's going too far for this thread.)

[Mellem]

As far as the minor key issue, for all simplistic intents and purposes, just make sure the 3rd is minor instead of major (a half-step lower than the major third) and it should sound good, am I wrong? I mean, there are plenty of differences, but unless you're walking a complex jazz line or not playing rock, the other differences don't come up so much.

The whole +2+2+1 scale progression really sidesteps the theory behind it though, and you should probably figure out which notes go in which scale after you play the scale correctly using the formula.

Oh, and I can hear intervals and such pretty well, but are bass players eventually expected to be able to name notes when they are played? Is that possible for everyone? I still have to tune one string electronically to tune my bass. Should I be working on that?

[dlloyd]

Originally Posted by Mellem

As far as the minor key issue, for all simplistic intents and purposes, just make sure the 3rd is minor instead of major (a half-step lower than the major third) and it should sound good, am I wrong? I mean, there are plenty of differences, but unless you're walking a complex jazz line or not playing rock, the other differences don't come up so much.

The whole +2+2+1 scale progression really sidesteps the theory behind it though, and you should probably figure out which notes go in which scale after you play the scale correctly using the formula.

Oh, and I can hear intervals and such pretty well, but are bass players eventually expected to be able to name notes when they are played? Is that possible for everyone? I still have to tune one string electronically to tune my bass. Should I be working on that?

Want to know a secret?

People aren't born with perfect pitch... they learn it.

Ever notice how people who have "perfect pitch" are often singers?

Sing the lowest note you can without your voice breaking up. It doesn't really drift much... Ta Da! instant internal pitch reference (mine is a slightly pathetic G)

That, with good relative pitch (which can be learnt) is a bit like "perfect pitch" ...wait a minute... it is perfect pitch, at least the beginnings of it.

[heath_the_great]

(note: i only read the first page)

jesus christ man...did you do music in high school over there...here..they start on intervals in your first year, keys, scales and everything..the best way to do it (or how i was taught) is to have a friend thats a keyboardist and get them to play up and down a scale two or three times and then get them to play random intervals and you tell them what it is...its all trail and error

[dlloyd]

Originally Posted by heath_the_great

(note: i only read the first page)

jesus christ man...did you do music in high school over there...here..they start on intervals in your first year, keys, scales and everything..the best way to do it (or how i was taught) is to have a friend thats a keyboardist and get them to play up and down a scale two or three times and then get them to play random intervals and you tell them what it is...its all trail and error

School music education in the UK is extremely variable. I taught guitar for a few years and it was pretty clear that, in the area I was living at the time, there was no music education whatsoever for the majority of kids, let alone music theory.

[heath_the_great]

its funny..our high school was a "languages" high school meaning that for the most years the highest scoring subject was the languages..but for the last 7 years the music department has been blowing everything away....our teacher is an amazing guitarist..he has a nice collection of hamers and an early 60's gibson les paul