This is my first time, be gentle

Craig630 · #1 09-01-2010, 07:17 AM

Yo gang,

I've got my fisrt lesson with my new instructor tonight. I haven't taken lessons in about 6 months. Prior to that I was self taught. My old instructor was a big Jazz guy, something that, while I realize the value in learning, I'm not looking for at the moment. I was with him for about 6 months and he just kept trying to puch Jazz on me. I stopped lessons with him because we just didn't jive.

So I've got a trial lesson with this guy tonight to see if we jive. I know (hope) one of the first things he's going to ask is "What do you hope to get out of these lessons?" Honestly, I'd like to get ready to play with, and find a local cover band. I'm definitley going to tell him this, but what stuff should I be looking to learn? I've been slowly working on reading sheet music (curse you tabs, this is like when I had to switch from velcro to laces in the third grade all over again!) on my own and I can pick up some songs pretty easily if I just sit down with them.

I understand arpeggios and such (thanks TB!) Now I know there's some significant value to having an experienced Bassist show me the ropes, but what sort of stuff should I be out to learn from this guy?

My technique, while not flawless, is very good. I can finger, pick, and slap with moderate proficiencey. If I'm playing with a drummer, I can usually lock in with his beat pretty well.

I do have trouble keeping songs straight in my noggin though. If we want to play something in particular I have to run through it in my head first and sometimes I just lose the song all together. Liekly that there's some sort of pnuemonic device bassists use to keep these things straight?

[/ramble] Long story short, what are some things I can try to focus on with this guy to make the lessons worth the $20/wk I'll be forking over? I wasted a lot of time and money with Jazzman and I'd hate to realize I did the same thing with this guy six months down the line.

Thanks for reading,
~Craig

brickerenator · #2 09-01-2010, 07:23 AM

My first lesson tonight too.

jgroh · #3 09-01-2010, 07:30 AM

Well it will be largely up to the instructor on what you will be going over, but if it were me, I would tell him most of what you said here so he knows where you are coming from (the jazz guy not jiving and your goals to be in a cover band). Knowing how to read is obviously a big thing no matter what music you play, but a good instructor should know how to work with each students wants and needs. Tell him about how hard it is to keep a complete song in your head and he should come up with some exercises to help with that (or at least thats what I would do). You will probably have to work with him for a bit before you can make a determination on if you will get along.

MonetBass · #4 09-01-2010, 08:55 AM

Assuming that you learned solid left- and right-hand techniques from your former teacher, I wouldn't focus too much on that unless the new guy sees a need for improvement.

Since you want to learn songs, work on being able to hear intervals. Also going through some standard chord progressions (I-IV-V-I-V) and coming up with different bass lines for those would be good practice as well.

becker4567 · #5 09-01-2010, 09:28 AM

Tell your new instructor exactly what you told us. If he has alot of experience and is a good teacher, he'll know what you need. Run through some of the stuff you already know to give him an idea of your ability level and let him do the rest.

SurferJoe46 · #6 09-01-2010, 09:47 AM

I always wonder why people are so 'off' with jazz.

Personally I feel jazz is the greatest learning tool for all types of music and once you've got a pretty firm lock on jazz, you can do anything!

hrodbert696 · #7 09-01-2010, 10:04 AM

+1 to telling him what you told us.

I'm also self-taught, playing in a cover band (albeit one that seems to have a hard time getting itself gig-ready), and wish I had the time and scratch to get a teacher to help me reach the next level.

Personally, if I were in your shoes and taking up with a new teacher, I would not be too interested in having him or her just teach me songs. I would want

1) feedback on improving my technique,
2) drilling and accountability on theory and applying it to playing,
3) help reading music fluidly (I can slog through it but I learned treble clef on saxophone and always have to "translate" for bass) and
4) teaching me different styles of play (I do a lot of fingerstyle, not much pick and no slap at all).

Help working out challenging songs along the way would be great (or using songs to practice 1-4) but those would be my priorities.

Craig630 · #8 09-01-2010, 10:17 AM

Thanks to everyone for the feedback. I appriciate it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SurferJoe46

I always wonder why people are so 'off' with jazz.

Personally I feel jazz is the greatest learning tool for all types of music and once you've got a pretty firm lock on jazz, you can do anything!

I'm not necissarily "off" with Jazz, I just don't particularly enjoy playing it and it's not stuff I'll immediatly put to use. I understand the value in learning a bit, but it's not what I want right now. I will admit that Harmonics would still elude me if I didn't have to learn the intro to Portrait of Tracey.

Another point:I'm an adult (31) and my last teacher established more of a friend atmosphere than a student/teacher relationship. As a result, if I didn't get the chance to practice as much as I liked the previous week it was more of a "Well, I understand, life gets in the way" instead of holding me accountable for my actions. Granted I was down on myself for not practicing enough, but my former teacher's "meh" attitude towards it didn't really push me to work harder next week, you know? I need me some Bass Bootcamp. If Gunny (Full Metal Jacket drill Sgt.) taught bass, I'd go see him for lesss.

mambo4 · #9 09-01-2010, 02:23 PM

Jazz theory is pretty much Modern music theory, and can apply usefully to all modern music. As a way of illustrating the ideas of music theory, Jazz is great way to demonstrate things. Unfortunately, many players (and teachers) make the mistake of placing jazz on a stylistic pedestal simply because it utilizes the theory in more complex and -to some- more interesting ways.
I learned a lot of Jazz theory, but rarely play jazz , tho I find the knowledge useful all the time.

Sounds like your Old instructor, the jazz guy, simply failed to explain or demonstrate the relevance of what he taught to the music you actually want to play.

Craig630 · #10 09-01-2010, 02:29 PM

I'll just toss this quote from my first post into the mix here:
"My old instructor was a big Jazz guy, something that, while I realize the value in learning, I'm not looking for at the moment."

I understand the validity of Jazz, from a theoretical point, to be sure. What I'm looking for now is help getting myself ready for a cover band to start gigging a bit. Once I'm more comfortable with the things I want to work on immidiatley, I fully intend on studying a bit more Jazz (theory) and learning the more intellectual aspects of playing music (not just bass.)

I have a bit of theory under my belt, I played piano as a child, Saxaphone for a few years (still angry dad let me trade it for an NES... seriously.. really?), clarinet for a little after that, and guitar off/on for many years.

kerrycares · #11 09-01-2010, 02:34 PM

i've found that if you're into jazz ...theory works
i've found that if you're into pop ...theory works
i've found that if you're into gospel ...theory works
i've found that if you're into funk ...theory works

what's hard to find is a good teacher ....that works for you

keep learnin... keep tryin new teachers....its your music....its your money

Tampabass · #12 09-01-2010, 02:36 PM

just my pet peeve, but I think the word you're looking for is "jibing," not "jiving."

And no, I'm not jiving.

And I'd agree with the suggestion to try to work in some study of theory - "legit" theory, jazz theory, whatever, any of it could be beneficial, no matter what kind of music you're playing. Just ask Steely Dan, or Frank Zappa.

JustOpenYourMind · #13 09-01-2010, 02:48 PM

There is one thing to take into consideration, if your only goal is to be in a cover band and you don't need technique lessons, I have a hard time seeing how music theory is going to bring something to the table. Learning intervals and recognising notes or chords by ear will help you pick up songs faster but aside from that since you don't even need to make up your own basslines, it'll stay theory and you might get bored...

If so many teacher show jazz music, it's because it's a direct application of music theory, you improvise and make up your own bassline in every song.

I would at least learn a bit about improvisation if I was you, that way you won't become a ''jukebox'' that can only play covers without being able to write basslines or original music.

AsianVoodoo · #14 09-01-2010, 06:28 PM

THATS WHAT SHE SAID!!!

brickerenator · #15 09-02-2010, 05:37 AM

Craig, how was your lesson?

I enjoyed mine thoroughly.

Craig630 · #16 09-02-2010, 06:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AsianVoodoo

THATS WHAT SHE SAID!!!

Yesterday, as I was leaving work, I actually said "That's what she said." in a completeley non-innuendo manner. It was weird.

Quote:

Originally Posted by brickerenator

Craig, how was your lesson?

I enjoyed mine thoroughly.

It went well, we did a lot of talking. Learning to read is where we're starting. I've got a copy of Hal Lenord's Bass Method (the first question he asked when we got into the nitty gritty) already so we're working through that.

I'm starting at page 1 and moving forward only after I "master" each page. He says It'll help him gauge where I'm at.

We clicked real well, I think this is going to work out well.

brickerenator · #17 09-02-2010, 06:56 AM

Haha, I'm in the same book. Currently on page 18, but he wants me to be at page 25 by next week, "No excuses" he said.

JimmyM · #18 09-02-2010, 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerrycares

i've found that if you're into jazz ...theory works
i've found that if you're into pop ...theory works
i've found that if you're into gospel ...theory works
i've found that if you're into funk ...theory works

what's hard to find is a good teacher ....that works for you

keep learnin... keep tryin new teachers....its your music....its your money

while theory works in all of it, not all types of music are good examples to learn past the basics. but jazz has it all. if i took lessons and the main focus wasn't on jazz,
i'd feel ripped off. learning how to play rock and pop covers
is something you can do by listening to records and playing along. i'm of the opinion that if i'm taking lessons, i don't feel comfortable with writing the lesson plans.

however, this guy is getting into the reading, so i think he'll be fine. but you really do yourself a disservice by trying to avoid jazz teaching.

Jim Campbell · #19 09-02-2010, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SurferJoe46

I always wonder why people are so 'off' with jazz.

Personally I feel jazz is the greatest learning tool for all types of music and once you've got a pretty firm lock on jazz, you can do anything!

amen to that.....sometimes the student tries to drive the lesson,and i guess i've made that mistake as well.....find a good teacher and let him teach.....the jazz guy and the op may not have "jibed",but that does not mean his lessons had no value.....you don't have to like the guy to learn,and i'd bet a lot of students would be better off learning from the jazz guy they don't "jibe" with,than the cool rock guy who does

WhiteKnuckles · #20 09-02-2010, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyM

while theory works in all of it, not all types of music are good examples to learn past the basics. but jazz has it all. if i took lessons and the main focus wasn't on jazz,
i'd feel ripped off. learning how to play rock and pop covers
is something you can do by listening to records and playing along. i'm of the opinion that if i'm taking lessons, i don't feel comfortable with writing the lesson plans.

however, this guy is getting into the reading, so i think he'll be fine. but you really do yourself a disservice by trying to avoid jazz teaching.

I pretty much agree...there's not much in rock and pop that I couldn't pick up on my own, so when I opted into serious lessons, I requested a teacher who was well versed in jazz and theory.

I learned more about theory and it's application in the first 3 months that I had in my prior 18 years of playing. Everything about my playing improved by leaps and bounds because I was completely out of my comfort zone. By 6 months, I could improvise on the fly and actually keep it in key and on time. Don't get me wrong...I wasn't just tearing it up like some master soloist, but it wasn't some horrid concoction of memorized licks either.

Will I ever play in, or want to play in a jazz act? No...I'm a rock/metal bassist.

Would I ever cop a jazz style lick into my original projects song? Oh yes I do...and get some nice praise for it too. It's not that I'm playing anything all that technical or flashy, but learning jazz has allowed me to think beyond doubling the guitars when writing my lines.

Craig, I'm not saying you should run back to your old teacher and beg him to take you back, but when you feel like you stop improving...go back to exploring jazz with your current teacher. There is no doubt you will be a better player for it.