My rate of learning confuses me

[Depth_Charge]

I play in a Top40 covers band.

Some songs I thought I would struggle to learn, I've learned quickly. I learned Crazy Little Thing Called Love (Queen) in all of 10 minutes. It has some tricky parts that still trip me up on occassion (usually when the drummer misses those triplpet fills) but for the most part within 20 I had broken it down and was jamming along to the CD. Within a week I was jamming it with my band much to the surprise of both guitarists.

Thats my usual pattern of learning. Burst of learning/breaking down, then jamming it to polish. It works great for me

And yet I am struggling to remember the one part during Play That Funky Music where they sing "Lay down and boogie and play that funky music till you drop" just after the A# change (dun, dun dun...). I can play it to tab fine (I learned this pre-method change), but put the tab away and rely on me and after the second or third note it goes awry!

Other annoyances with playing/memory include the the hammer-on/pulloff fills during Blister In The Sun and the bridge to Bring Me Life etc etc.

I know how the songs go, have ingested the music and can sing it etc, I just seem to always mess these up. I loop them and jam them repeatedly from 20% to 100% repeatedly, yet the next day I come back I've maybe progressed one note or not at all. I always tell me "you can do this" so it's not me thinking I can't as such...I hope. AND I've layed off the smoke and don't do that anymore.

Frustrating doesn't cover it! Any ideas, thoughts (translations for people) welcome!

[Cristo]

Well, if you are not sight reading music, but playing it from memory, then your brain has to learn how it goes AND your hands have to learn how it goes.

You say you know the songs and can sing to them, so it sounds like the problem is the hands. Only cure I know is to play them again, and again, and again, etc. etc.

Eventually both the brain and hands know what to do.

[middy]

It really helps to know music theory. What notes you are playing over the chord progression and why. That way, you just have to know the progression (which is probably similar to the progression in a bunch of other songs you know) and that will narrow down the appropriate notes enough that you'll have no problem remembering the right ones.

It really is easier to do it the right way.

[Depth_Charge]

Thanks guys!

I had a feeling it would be repetition repetition repetition.

I know my theory lacks. I finally get onto some good resources, and I can't get the time to start

I did call and book a teacher for 4 lessons though. Thats' a start!!

Well, back to it!

[Earthday]

Time and practice will solve this issue. The more music you learn to play, the easier it will become to learn songs, both because of your hands progressing in technicality and because you'll start to see patterns and start to get to know your fretboard.

A really good exercise would be to transpose songs that you already know into different keys. It will be a long process at first, but you'll get better at it, start to hear the music a little differently, see more patterns, and get a much better idea of what you're playing.

I usually wont say I "know" a song until I could play it in any key. If I'm getting lost playing something in another key, when I'm fine in its natural key, it's proof to me that my fingers are ahead of my musicality.

[louieeadg]

+1 on that middy,

tis true. learning tabs is good for getting into the swing of things quickly but you'll soon find that you're going to hit walls with learning...

Plus, you've gotta 'FEEL' the music and listen, not just play from memory. So if you mess up the "dun, dun dun..." part, if you're really feeling it and not thinking about the fretboard in terms of numbers, you'll even be able to improvise and play something still in key that's funky.

that's my penny...

[MonetBass]

Originally Posted by Depth_Charge

...where they sing "Lay down and boogie and play that funky music till you drop"

It's "...till you DIE". And that part the bass just matches the vocal.

[DocBop]

Originally Posted by Depth_Charge

<snip>... but put the tab away and rely on me and after the second or third note it goes awry!

Burn the TAB and force yourself to use your ear. May yourself relearn it so it will stick. When you have to work for something it sticks. You also see and hear things when having to figure them out or re-figure them out that you don't when just parroting a sheet of TAB.

{QUOTE]
Other annoyances with playing/memory include the the hammer-on/pulloff fills during Blister In The Sun and the bridge to Bring Me Life etc etc.

I know how the songs go, have ingested the music and can sing it etc, I just seem to always mess these up. I loop them and jam them repeatedly from 20% to 100% repeatedly, yet the next day I come back I've maybe progressed one note or not at all.[/quote]

A couple things. First slow things down and practice at a tempo you can play it perfectly at consistently. You want to develop speed doing thing right, not get fast at doing it right and wrong. In general it take the body between 10 and 100 repetitions to learn a new physical movement. Some more some less, but that is the ballpark. So play things slowly and correctly when the body is learning to do something new. That was as you develop speed your not developing a bad habit along with it.

Also not only do different people learn at different rates, but we learn different things at different rates. Something just fall right in place and we can run with it immediately, other things take more time. That can be either new knowledge or physical skills. This is another part of the value of keeping a practice journal you start seeing patterns like that.

We all feel like there isn't enough time and try to speed the learning process. We usually end up learning a lot of stuff we have to unlearn down the road. Remember... To learn a lot of information fast, learn a little information slowly.

[Depth_Charge]

Originally Posted by DocBop

Burn the TAB and force yourself to use your ear.

Funny you say that. In desperation I took the tab to just that part of the song to practice last time. Cheated and nailed the first and last time, winged and stuffed second time. Also, the drummer threw his sticks so I went on a little jam which actually went well over the 2 guitarists

Got home, sleep, got up next morning, walked up to the bass before work and nailed that sucker!! Now I get it almost everytime no tabs no singing in my head nothing. Go figure. . .

Originally Posted by DocBop

May yourself relearn it so it will stick. When you have to work for something it sticks. You also see and hear things when having to figure them out or re-figure them out that you don't when just parroting a sheet of TAB.

Thanks. Obviously I can't unlearn parts that are naturally coming off but do you mean "relearn it" as in listen to it by ear and work out odd bits all over again?

Originally Posted by Depth_Charge

Other annoyances with playing/memory include the the hammer-on/pulloff fills during Blister In The Sun and the bridge to Bring Me Life etc etc.

I know how the songs go, have ingested the music and can sing it etc, I just seem to always mess these up. I loop them and jam them repeatedly from 20% to 100% repeatedly, yet the next day I come back I've maybe progressed one note or not at all.

A couple things. First slow things down and practice at a tempo you can play it perfectly at consistently. You want to develop speed doing thing right, not get fast at doing it right and wrong. In general it take the body between 10 and 100 repetitions to learn a new physical movement. Some more some less, but that is the ballpark. So play things slowly and correctly when the body is learning to do something new. That was as you develop speed your not developing a bad habit along with it.
[/quote]
Just like learning to punch or kick! Doh, why did i never think of the relationship. . .

Originally Posted by DocBop

Also not only do different people learn at different rates, but we learn different things at different rates. Something just fall right in place and we can run with it immediately, other things take more time. That can be either new knowledge or physical skills. This is another part of the value of keeping a practice journal you start seeing patterns like that.

We all feel like there isn't enough time and try to speed the learning process. We usually end up learning a lot of stuff we have to unlearn down the road. Remember... To learn a lot of information fast, learn a little information slowly.

Thank for the insight I will seek to apply some of it with the new songs our bands wants to play I am still pretty much relying on written mediums (migrated from tabs to guitar chord sheets) to absorb cover material quickly. . .

And yet the 2 or 3 songs I learned by ear I never need to practice