my time "reading" is aweful, is this common?

[lokerola]

Hello everyone and thanks in advance if you respond to my question. I'm fairly new to the bass and I'm getting th fingering down OK, learning my scales, picking up triads, arpeggios (at least the concepts), marjor versus minor, and I can create some basic blues bass lines.

Overall I'm happy with my progress...except being able to know what particular beats, or parts of time I'm playing. If I'm jamming along repeating a blues bass line and try and stop and id the beat - meaning, was that a triplet, or some combo of quarter notes I was just playing - I can't do it. I when I look 2/4 versus 4/4 and try and play it it sounds the same.

I can get a groove going by feel, but I've been beating my head against the wall trying to play some simple bass lines by reading the notes off of some simple sheet music and for the life of me I can't seem to do it, timing-wise.

My theory is coming along, but if someone told me to play a 12 bar blues with the downbeat on 1 and 4 with only triplets I couldnt do it.

Do you all learn songs by theory and work out the timing by playing along with the song and getting the groove, or are you all really working out the timing (oh, the bass line has quarter, quarter, eight, triplet, rest, etc)?

I'm feeling pretty defeated that I can't count where I am within a song, or tell myself what type of note I'm playing.

Anyone else experience this? How did you overcome it? Or did you learn the theory and just pick up on the beat based on playing along with the song?

Thanks.
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[MalcolmAmos]

Originally Posted by lokerola

........... Or did you learn the theory and just pick up on the beat based on playing along with the song? Thanks.
=

That's what I do, I sing the song under my breath along with the solo instrument or vocalist. I'm accompanying their lead.

In a perfect World we should set the beat and lead into the chord changes, i.e. they follow our lead. I think each group (band) has to work out what works best for them. In the bands I play with the vocalist sets the beat, once set I then try and maintain that beat. Some vocalists will speed up as the song progresses - now my steady beat comes into the picture. Understand if we have sheet music it's fake chord so we are faking a bunch of stuff.

Keep practicing. Never hurts to know the right way.

[lokerola]

Thanks MalcomAmos - that's good to know. I had this fear that unless I master and memorize every song's timing I won't be able to play with others. I guess I'm over thinking this a bit. thanks again.

[christoph h.]

Well, ultimately you should be able to tell "where" you are in the music.

A good place to start might be counting while playing some simple rhythms, for example
count the eight notes: "1 and 2 and 3 and 4 and" while playing from sheet music.
At first, don't use a metronome - add that as you feel more confident.

After some time you will notice that this stuff will be present "in the back of your head" when you are playing. I think Tommy Igoe said it very well in a drumming video:

"Count with confidence - play with confidence - stop counting!"

Also, never feel bad about not being able to perform something right away.

[mambo4]

Originally Posted by lokerola

Do you all learn songs by theory and work out the timing by playing along with the song and getting the groove, or are you all really working out the timing (oh, the bass line has quarter, quarter, eight, triplet, rest, etc)? :

Reading rhythm is tough, btu worth pursuing.

when I first started, even though I knew my quarter notes from my eights , it was almost all by feel. Much faster to get going than spending hours "decoding" dots on a page.

7 years in I hit a wall when I started playing Latin (Cuban) music. The bass lines were deceptively simple to my gringo ears, but when it came time to fit in with the rhythm section, I found my lack of precise understanding of the rhythm was hampering me. The need to lock in with what the other instruments was paramount.

so I spent serious research time exploring Latin rhythms, learning each basic percussion part and referring to the notated rhythms i was learning as I went. Probably a year of really working at it before I started to feel things click.

Post -latin phase, I made a habit of writing down rhythmic figures as I came up with them, which increased my literacy.

Now days I can pretty much "hear" if a note falls on a 8th note vs a 16th and such. I think my work with reading rhythm notation is responsible for that.

Just keep at it, start with simple stuff : half, quarter, eight.
Latin music is great to learn with because it's got syncopation, anticipation, but rarely gets more granular than eight notes.

[Staccato]

Finding ways to practice 'proper' rhythm while reading can be fun! I promise, write that down.

Reading sheet music (or exercises on a bass clef) everyday sound like torture? With sheet music in front of you, listen/hear the song on CD. How to drive yourself toward learning, or feeling a song? Repetition. Listen to the song (or parts of a song) over and over, and over...

The practical steps:
Learn about time signatures and the relationships of notes and rests in THAT song. Study the intro, melody, turnaround-parts one at a time. And you'll learn the inherent rhythms in that song. Study the differences between tempo & rhythm and tap your foot during reading/practice. The Metronome is an excellent tool.

[Mayers]

Yes it is common when you start learning. You will be more fluant with practice.

Listen to the song with the music sheet infront of you, tapping the beat. After that you take your instrument and play it.

[Jim Campbell]

Originally Posted by lokerola

Hello everyone and thanks in advance if you respond to my question. I'm fairly new to the bass and I'm getting th fingering down OK, learning my scales, picking up triads, arpeggios (at least the concepts), marjor versus minor, and I can create some basic blues bass lines.

Overall I'm happy with my progress...except being able to know what particular beats, or parts of time I'm playing. If I'm jamming along repeating a blues bass line and try and stop and id the beat - meaning, was that a triplet, or some combo of quarter notes I was just playing - I can't do it. I when I look 2/4 versus 4/4 and try and play it it sounds the same.

I can get a groove going by feel, but I've been beating my head against the wall trying to play some simple bass lines by reading the notes off of some simple sheet music and for the life of me I can't seem to do it, timing-wise.

My theory is coming along, but if someone told me to play a 12 bar blues with the downbeat on 1 and 4 with only triplets I couldnt do it.

Do you all learn songs by theory and work out the timing by playing along with the song and getting the groove, or are you all really working out the timing (oh, the bass line has quarter, quarter, eight, triplet, rest, etc)?

I'm feeling pretty defeated that I can't count where I am within a song, or tell myself what type of note I'm playing.

Anyone else experience this? How did you overcome it? Or did you learn the theory and just pick up on the beat based on playing along with the song?

Thanks.
=

slow down and count it out.....get the groove,then speed it up.....what i do is get a chart and tap the rhythms on the table while counting the note/rest values

[lokerola]

Wow everybody - these have all been fantastic responses. Thanks for the advice and insight into how you all approach learning and playing with the proper timing.

I am going to focus on the basics; trying to follow the song on the sheet music, practice basic coutning, and learning the timing for that particular song.

Stacatto - I really like your advice about learning the difference between tempo and rhythm; something I need to do.

Thanks again!