Need advice/tips on writing bass parts for originals

winterburn69 · #1 09-22-2011, 04:29 PM

First, I don't know if this is the correct forum to post this in, it it's not, dear Mod, please move it. Now, I'll give a bit of info.

So I joined a band back in July (of 2011), they've been together for just over two years and I'm the longest serving bassist at the moment.

I'm having issues playing bass parts for the originals they've written. There were no previous bass parts for their songs so I'm just doing root notes with fills here and there. It's okay and sounds good for some songs, but not every song and gets pretty boring. We play rock/pop punk stuff, it's almost always just four chord stuff. We're just a three piece (bass, guitar & drums) so it sounds really really bare during guitar solos. So I'm looking advice/tips on what to play instead of just root notes, maybe take some influence from some of my favorite bassists (Simon Gallup, Mark Hoppus, John Paul Jones, Nikki Sixx, Paul McCartney, John Entwistle, John Taylor & Roger Waters) all kinds of different styles there, from very melodic to just "in the pocket" and root notes to chords (I like the chords!).

kb9wyz · #2 09-22-2011, 04:32 PM

Walking bass lines or arpeggios will do you good. There are some good titles from Hal Leonard and Mel Bay on these. I call upon others to cite specific titles they like.

Drop-the-One · #3 09-22-2011, 05:03 PM

+1 to kb9wyz's walking and arpeggios. If it's all nice and diatonic, walking your way down the scale to the next chord is nice... pentatonic is great to shred on and won't get in the way of the rest of the song.

Rhythm placement. What's the drummer's playing like? Does he accent anything or do simple significant fills? You can most certainly base lots of fills on his kick pattern, fills or entire drum beat

Coffee Shop Soundtrack
All Time Low - Weightless - YouTube
0:30 - bassist picks root note and plays it to snare fill

Great simple bassline in Monster
Paramore: Monster [OFFICIAL VIDEO] - YouTube

Also, for pop/rock/punk, lots of slides leading to a root note of a next chord can't be played enough

You + drummer dropping the 1st beat of a bar every once in a while adds a lot. Apparently a lot of older American punk bands like Lagwagon did it all the time, though I don't listen to that genre much.

mambo4 · #4 09-22-2011, 05:15 PM

Unless you have established a clear, confident and consistent rhythm for each part of the song, spending time looking at 'more notes' may be premature. Most amateur bass lines sound lackluster because they lack good rhythm, not good notes.

Once you are nailing the root on the downbeat, instead of looking for 'more notes' to play, start listening carefully to what is happening rhythm-wise. Most songs will have some kind of basic groove underlying them, expressed between the drums and bass. Figure out how your line will match up /deviate form the kick drum pattern, and how it relates to the snare hits. think about how long you hold your notes too.

winterburn69 · #5 09-23-2011, 03:49 AM

Yes! the bass part to Monster is great! Initially i didn't like it because I don't like the Transformers movies. Great song though. Paramore is a great comparison, exactly that type of music, though only one guitar (not two or three). Jeremy Davis is a great bassist IMO, does the root note stuff sometimes, but more often than not it's very rhythmic and melodic (ex: brick by boring brick).

Quite honestly the drummers playing is terrible. He tries to be fast n' flashy like Travis Barker but lacks what he does to make the fast n' flashiness fit into the song so it's usually just alot of fast drumming stuff. He sounds good the odd song.

I like the idea of dropping the first beat of a bar. I definitely have the rhyhtm of the songs, but it's the four note structure of every song, it just gets boring.

MalcolmAmos · #6 09-23-2011, 05:45 AM

Writing bass lines can follow a basic structure or not. Let's talk about the structured approach.

For the melody line and the chord line to harmonize and sound good together both lines should share like notes. So your bass line needs to get it's notes from the cords used in the song. Why? Well if you do someone (perhaps you) have already placed the chords where needed for harmonization to take place.

So if you gather your bass line notes from the chord's notes you will harmonize - with what is already being done. Now the question is how many like notes are needed, i.e. how full you make your bass lines. That depends on several factory, 1) being your taste and 2) being what is normally done with the type of music you are writing bass lines for. One like note per bar will get you harmonization (Roots), two like notes per bar (R-5) is normally a little better. Two got you harmonization, beyond two you are adding gravy. If you like gravy add as much as you think is necessary.

Roots on 1 and if you need something else add the five.
If you feel the need for more think of the 3 and the 7. Use as many of them as you think best. Once you start adding notes beyond the 7th, i.e. 9, 11, 13 you are moving beyond basic accompaniment and getting into melodic accompaniment.

Question here then is do you want a melodic or a dirt simple bass line. Only you know, help yourself to the notes that give you what you want. I'm Country and Country bass lines are dirt simple and leave melodic alone, anything beyond basic will get some fish eyes from the other members of the band.

So root on 1 and add as much as YOU think necessary.
Now walking. Here again how much do you want. Secondary dominant to the next chord on the 4th beat or chromatic runs and then how many chromatic notes will be needed, in the run, depends on your taste and or what is normally done with this music.

The above gives the structure you need to consider. Where you take that is left up to you. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFzPa...eature=related
Good luck.

The Bassmonkey · #7 09-23-2011, 05:55 AM

Not exactly the answer your looking for I know but, im in a 3 piece and when ever the guitarist does a solo, I whack on the bass muff and play chords on the D & G strings. Usually whatever the guitarist was playing prior to the solo.

Fills the gap in sound up nicely, plus you get to thrash about a bit

narud · #8 09-23-2011, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MalcolmAmos

Writing bass lines can follow a basic structure or not. Let's talk about the structured approach.

For the melody line and the chord line to harmonize and sound good together both lines should share like notes. So your bass line needs to get it's notes from the cords used in the song. Why? Well if you do someone (perhaps you) have already placed the chords where needed for harmonization to take place.

So if you gather your bass line notes from the chord's notes you will harmonize - with what is already being done. Now the question is how many like notes are needed, i.e. how full you make your bass lines. That depends on several factory, 1) being your taste and 2) being what is normally done with the type of music you are writing bass lines for. One like note per bar will get you harmonization (Roots), two like notes per bar (R-5) is normally a little better. Two got you harmonization, beyond two you are adding gravy. If you like gravy add as much as you think is necessary.

Roots on 1 and if you need something else add the five.
If you feel the need for more think of the 3 and the 7. Use as many of them as you think best. Once you start adding notes beyond the 7th, i.e. 9, 11, 13 you are moving beyond basic accompaniment and getting into melodic accompaniment.

Question here then is do you want a melodic or a dirt simple bass line. Only you know, help yourself to the notes that give you what you want. I'm Country and Country bass lines are dirt simple and leave melodic alone, anything beyond basic will get some fish eyes from the other members of the band.

So root on 1 and add as much as YOU think necessary.
Now walking. Here again how much do you want. Secondary dominant to the next chord on the 4th beat or chromatic runs and then how many chromatic notes will be needed, in the run, depends on your taste and or what is normally done with this music.

The above gives the structure you need to consider. Where you take that is left up to you. Washtub bass player - YouTube
Good luck.

yes, by all means please start implying secondary dominants in chromatic runs in your pop/punk band.

winterburn69 · #9 09-24-2011, 07:12 AM

I'm not very technical, so what do you mean by "implying secondary dominants in chromatic runs"? I think I may know what you're talking about, but chromatic runs makes me think I'm so wrong I should stop complaining about 4 note songs, embrace it and buy a Pete Wentz bass.

winterburn69 · #10 09-25-2011, 06:52 AM

here's a few songs to give you a taste of what we sound like:

Friends With Benefits ( Nonsense Promo Single) - YouTube - friends with benefits (original)

Like A Psycho LIVE AT THE RAWLINSON - YouTube - like a psycho (Original)

All The Small Thing (Blink-182 Cover) Nonsense - YouTube - all the small things cover

Back To Black (Amy Winehouse Cover) Nonsense - YouTube - back TO black cover

sorry for the shoddy camera work, idk who filmed it. the stuff my girlfriend filmed was of way higher quality (it was filmed on a HD camera) and it's alot less moving-around-y but it's not on youtube yet. unfortunately, there's also no videos of the songs I feel we did the best on at this show (which was only my second with the band).

fdeck · #11 09-25-2011, 08:55 AM

"Lesser artists borrow, great artists steal." -- Igor Stravinsky

Learn the bass parts to lots of songs in your genre, to give you a vocabulary of rhythms and harmonies. Then, re-combine bits and pieces of those bass parts into your band's tunes. Being able to confidently create a generic but workable bass line, will give you the comfort to create your own novel stuff.