Need to get better

[Titovonb24]

New to talkbass..My name is Ryan, I'm 16 and I've been playing bass for about a year and a half now. I have some questions though. I play in a band and I'm fairly decent, though lately I don't feel like I've made any progress. I have been working hard on the songs we've made for our first show (I do both bass and vocals for most songs) and thats pretty much all I've been practicing. Lately I've been trying to play stuff from Green Day but I just cannot play those basslines for the life of me. I can play friggin Master of Puppets from Cliff, but as soon as I try Longview I just can't do anything right...I feel like I haven't progressed in a long time and I want to really love playing bass again, because at this rate I don't know how long I'll last

[MalcolmAmos]

What are you playing from now, tab, standard notation, chord tone interval or ear? Be a little more specific about what you are doing now and what you would like to do better.

Lot of help here just be a little more specific.

[Titovonb24]

I play mostly from tab, and I'm trying to write a lot of my own basslines as well. I just want something more complex than following the guitar or doing a root-fifth kinda thing...I just want in general to play the bass better than I do now. I've been told I'm good but I don't agree with them so much. Another hard thing to do is write a decent bassline that I can play as I sing, instead of just supporting the chords.

[Warrior_Bass]

A lot of the basics you can learn from a teacher will help give you a collection of tools to use. You still have to use your creativity to actually use them, but understanding chords, scales, and theory in general will definitely help. Ultimately I'd say get a teacher. Don't re-invent the wheel.

[onionpuzzle]

singing and playing bass can be a challenge, best to know the basslines inside and out so the fingers just MOVE without much thought---

as far as bass skills alone, the topic has been covered ad nauseum on TB about beginner/intermediate advice. There is no ONE WAY to learn, or get better.

Lessons, and/or learning to read music is a GREAT way to get better, and especially someone as young as you would benefit greatly. There are books, tabs, youtube vids, etc. also, if lessons aren't your cup of tea.

I found an "arpeggio" book that shows chordal notes/scales VERY VERY useful.
PICK UP ONE OF THESE.

Bottom line is, if the bass is not in your hands, you are not learning much. Practice, practice, practice.

[puddin tame]

practice and listen to a lot more music. variety is essential if you want to be any good

[Titovonb24]

I suppose the biggest problem I have is that, my fingers just wont do what I want them to do. I have a very basic understanding of music theory, and I can play some scales and whatnot. I didn't mean so much as I wanted to learn more theory (which I know I need to do anyway) but that I want to improve my technique persay. I wish I could get a teacher but I don't know of any around here...

[ryco]

Getting a GOOD teacher makes the learning process a lot faster while avoiding making bad technique habits. Bad habits you'll have to unlearn and then relearn correctly.
Also a GOOD teacher will naturally work theory into your lessons - theory is just a labeling device to describe what you're hearing/playing. One idea - if you can't find a bass teacher, find a GOOD guitar teacher.

If technique issues are what is bothering you, it just takes time = repetition; until what you want to hear is ingrained in your fingers. Or, if your a singer, get to the point where you can put your bass on "automatic" and still do a good job playing lines (ala Geddy, Araya, etc).

If you listed your location, someone might know of some GOOD local teachers, or check out your nearest music store. If that doesn't help maybe check out Mel Bay or Hal Leonard and find books that look interesting to you = techniques/styles you want to learn. Of course there's a LOT of info here at TalkBass = check out all the stickies at the top of the General Instruction page!

Playing well and coming up with creative lines just takes consistent practice time and good focused effort.

[Chris K]

+1 on the teacher, as always.
Learn to read music and buy some good bass study books.
Study the essential scales and arpeggio's.

[MalcolmAmos]

Originally Posted by Titovonb24

I play mostly from tab,

Stop. Tabs are a dead end. Now it is OK to take a peek and see how a specific riff is done, but, do not rely upon tabs for what you do all the time.

....and I'm trying to write a lot of my own basslines as well. I just want something more complex than following the guitar or doing a root-fifth kinda thing...

I'd recommend Building Walking Bass Lines by Ed Friedland for more complex lines and remember our job is the groove, sometime the groove is just roots. http://www.amazon.com/Building-Walki...der_0793542049

Another hard thing to do is write a decent bass line that I can play as I sing, instead of just supporting the chords.

Who has the lead when you sing? Your voice. Everybody else is supposed to lay back and give your voice the lead.
Anything beyond roots or simple R-5's while you are singing will take away from your vocal.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fX5USg8_1gA here is a video of Clapton - yes it's 6 string lead, but look what he is doing when he sings -- chords -- simple generic muscle memory auto pilot stuff. When he is not singing he does the single note stuff. A fancy bass line under what you are singing will take away from your vocal. Now what about when others have the lead, yep, you bass line should augment not compete with their efforts. There is a time for fancy bass lines and there is a time for basic bass lines.

I think what will help the most is; 1) break away from tab. 2) Play from fake chord sheet music and 3) get some basic chord tone bass lines into muscle memory, i.e. when you see or hear a Em7 chord you've got a bass line (R-b3-5-b7) in muscle memory to pull up. Now how much of that you use depends on what is needed for the groove. Those 4 notes will give you all you need. Perhaps it'll be R-b3-R-b3 or R-R-b3-b7 what ever you think best. That's why I say pull away from tabs - play what you think best, it's a lot more fun.

Muscle memory stuff. See a chord name and automatically pull up your generic bass line for that chord.
C = R-3-5-3 OK it's a C chord place your Root on a C - 4th string 8th fret or 3rd string 3rd fret - whatever - and where is your 3 yep up a string and back one fret, right where it is supposed to be. How about the 5? Right where it always is, up a string and over two frets.
Cm = R-b3-5-b3
C7 = R-3-5-b7
Cm7 = R-b3-5-b7
Cmaj7 = R-3-5-7
Cm7b5 = R-b3-b5-b7
Major pentatonic = R, 2, 3, 5, 6
Minor pentatonic = R, b3, 4, 5, b7
No need going beyond that right now you won't have time in the measure for more complicated stuff than just your sevenths. You'll know when to start using the 9, 11 and 13. Look here and see if any of this will help. http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showth...67#post9372867

See what you can do with this:
www.studybass.com
http://www.smithfowler.org/music/Chord_Formulas.htm
http://www.cyberfretbass.com/scales/basic/page2.php
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUK5pE5x_6A --- look on the right hand side of the screen. Help yourself.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4x0u...eature=related start out with roots and work your way to full chord tones. Two chords in the same measure - you've got two beats for each chord R-5 if it's major and R-b3 if it's minor is one way of doing it.


That should keep you busy and hopefully let you find something that will lead you to something "better".