Need Help figuring out Progression

[stealyourface]

So I made a basic chord progression and I am trying to figure out what key it is in. It goes D > A > E > G > A. Do I look at that as 1 > 5 > 2 > 4 > 5?? How do I tell which key it is in, and once I do that, how do I figure out if major or minor works the best for each chord?

Thanks for the help.

[Ed Fuqua]

Well that's' the problem, you haven't actually made a progression. You've made a line.
D > A > E > G > A doesn't really tell us anything about the harmony, because all of those notes will work on a variety of chords. If they are all roots of the chords, it still doesn't tell us anything about the chords.

Let's pick the key with no flats or sharps, C Major. If all of those chords are diatonic to C major AND those are all roots, then you get a progression that goes
D minor 7
A minor 7
E minor 7
G dominant 7
A minor 7

But if they aren't all roots, even if you are diatonic to the key, it's all up for grabs. The D could be the root of a minor chord or the 5th of the G dominant chord, it could be the 3rd of the B minor chord, it could be the flat7 of the E minor chord.

If you are NOT diatonic but they ARE all roots, then it's ALL up for grabs. They could ALL be major minor dominant augmented diminished etc etc etc. That is, you might not BE in a key or you might be modulating between several keys.

They could even all work over one or two chords. You play a D sus 4 (D G A C).


Look at it this way, harmony is 3 dimensional and you've only plotted points in one dimension.

[trust24]

Can some explain in stupid mans terms how to work out what key things are in. I know theres a thread started about it but i just got confused when reading it

[BigOldHarry]

See what Ed said.

[DudeistMonk]

In diatonic harmony for major you have...

I - Major
ii - Minor
iii - Minor
IV - Major
V - Major
vi - minor
vii - Diminished

For minor you have...

i - Minor
ii - Diminished
III - Major
iv - Minor
v - Minor
VI - Major
VII - Major

Of course you can always borrow from the parallel minor/major or other places, based on what sounds good to you.

[stealyourface]

Originally Posted by Ed Fuqua

Well that's' the problem, you haven't actually made a progression. You've made a line.
D > A > E > G > A doesn't really tell us anything about the harmony, because all of those notes will work on a variety of chords. If they are all roots of the chords, it still doesn't tell us anything about the chords.

Let's pick the key with no flats or sharps, C Major. If all of those chords are diatonic to C major AND those are all roots, then you get a progression that goes
D minor 7
A minor 7
E minor 7
G dominant 7
A minor 7

But if they aren't all roots, even if you are diatonic to the key, it's all up for grabs. The D could be the root of a minor chord or the 5th of the G dominant chord, it could be the 3rd of the B minor chord, it could be the flat7 of the E minor chord.

If you are NOT diatonic but they ARE all roots, then it's ALL up for grabs. They could ALL be major minor dominant augmented diminished etc etc etc. That is, you might not BE in a key or you might be modulating between several keys.

They could even all work over one or two chords. You play a D sus 4 (D G A C).


Look at it this way, harmony is 3 dimensional and you've only plotted points in one dimension.

Ok lots of good info here, but how do I plot the rest of the harmony?

All of these notes are roots, I know that. If I understand your post correctly... wait I'm really confused.

So what possible keys can this progression be in if these are all root notes? (and diatonic)

[DudeistMonk]

Ok lots of good info here, but how do I plot the rest of the harmony?

All of these notes are roots, I know that. If I understand your post correctly... wait I'm really confused.

So what possible keys can this progression be in if these are all root notes? (and diatonic)

Ed is a lot more knowledgeable then me, but I think I might have the simple explanation you are looking for (just keep in mind that he is right and in the long run none of what I'm about to say matters and its all about what sounds good, and to write a chord progression you really have to write it in chords like ed said, not individual notes)...

Mathematically speaking here is how you harmonize those notes (emphases on the MATHEMATICALLY).

Okay your first note is D so lets assume you are in the key of D...D major to make it simpler...

In the key of D major you have the following notes to choose from...

D,E,F#,G,A,B,C#

So following the chart I posted above if you where going to form chords from that you would get...

D major
E minor
F# minor
G major
A major
B minor
C# - diminished

(to really understand this you need to write out each one of these chords and realize that they all use 3 of those 7 notes)

So completely sticking to the key of D major your progression would be harmonized...

Dmaj > Amaj > Emin > Gmaj > Amaj

You could also throw 7ths on some of them ext. but I'm sticking to triads for simplicities sake.

If you did this in D minor instead it would come out...

Dmin > Amin > E dim > Gmin > A min
and your note bank would be D,E,F,G,A,Bb,C

You could also harmonize this in any key that has a natural D,A,E,G, in it (like Ed did with the key of C)

[RDUB]

First things first. Does is sound major or minor? If you were to sing along with the melody, are you singing a major or minor scale?

Next, which chord to everything want to go to? What's the root note of the melody, (the one note that generally ends the chord progression, but not necessarily, because there are some crafty writers out there!), the one note you'd be happy finishing things with.

If you answer those questions, we can probably make a pretty good stab at guessing the key, and perhaps even the basic chords if they're diatonic to the key.

I know this sounds like a lot of stuff to go through, but I think you can see that without hearing it ourselves, it's a pretty difficult question to answer because there are so many possibilities. (See Ed's reply above... )

As you get used to listening for the chord structure, and practice it some, you'll get better at picking out common sounds and progressions right off the bat! It can get really cool when you run into some of the common and less common substitutions, and that's what makes it fun!

Hope this helps, and hang in there...

[trust24]

Originally Posted by RDUB

First things first. Does is sound major or minor? If you were to sing along with the melody, are you singing a major or minor scale?

Next, which chord to everything want to go to? What's the root note of the melody, (the one note that generally ends the chord progression, but not necessarily, because there are some crafty writers out there!), the one note you'd be happy finishing things with.

If you answer those questions, we can probably make a pretty good stab at guessing the key, and perhaps even the basic chords if they're diatonic to the key.

I know this sounds like a lot of stuff to go through, but I think you can see that without hearing it ourselves, it's a pretty difficult question to answer because there are so many possibilities. (See Ed's reply above... )

As you get used to listening for the chord structure, and practice it some, you'll get better at picking out common sounds and progressions right off the bat! It can get really cool when you run into some of the common and less common substitutions, and that's what makes it fun!

Hope this helps, and hang in there...

I dont under stand, i think it would be easier if you came round my house and smack me over the head with my bass

[DudeistMonk]

Can some explain in stupid mans terms how to work out what key things are in. I know theres a thread started about it but i just got confused when reading it

I dont under stand, i think it would be easier if you came round my house and smack me over the head with my bass

Really dude? Clearly this thread isn't about finding keys...If you need help with that your should start a thread, cause I doubt anyone is going to answer you in this one.

[trust24]

ok i will

[stealyourface]

Thanks for the responses.

Ok so I am thinking I should record it and put it online, but until I do, some thoughts:

Ok I think it sounds like major. I mean there is no melody yet (does that make sense) but I think it sounds major.

The bass line consists of the notes from the OP and in 2 spots I bounce or pivot off of C, when going from D > A, and from A > E. Does this mean that the D is a D7 and the A is minor?

Basically I am thinking about this because the bass line is almost entirely root notes and I want to know where I can spice it up. (but I think you get the point)

[RDUB]

Could be:

D / A7 / Em7 / G A7 / D, which would be:
I / V7 /IIm7 /IV V7 / I

in the key of D. I'm sure others could come up with an entirely different scenario until we hear it!

[slybass3000]

Without knowing the chord's colors it is hard to tell but I did play the roots in a Rock style and it could easily be a song in A that start on IV degree and having the G as bVII chord which is typical in a Rock song ,


Sly

[Jake of Bass]

If you know what the chords are you need to post them. The root notes alone have a number of different chord combinations that all work diatonically. As it stands we need more info to answer your question.

If it does sound major and you're playing the C note in a few places, it sounds like you could be in the key of D mixolydian (your scales tones would be: D E F# G A B C).

If you are indeed in D mixolydian, your diatonic chords for the line you posted will be: D7 - Am7 - Em7 - Gmaj7 - Am7

[onlyclave]

Originally Posted by Jake of Bass

If it does sound major and you're playing the C note in a few places, it sounds like you could be in the key of D mixolydian (your scales tones would be: D E F# G A B C).

If you are indeed in D mixolydian, your diatonic chords for the line you posted will be: D7 - A7 - Em7 - Gmaj7 - A7

No. No no no no no. Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.

No.

What is wrong with that statement? If it sounds major and you find yourself playing a lot of C's, it is therefore D mixolydian? That right there is the whole problem with modes. I'm sorry Jake, you're a nice guy but that is a completely ludicrous statement. If it sounds major and there are a lot of C's then you are either in C major or as a second guess you are in F. Nothing else. Nothing. Else.

[Jake of Bass]

Originally Posted by onlyclave

No. No no no no no. Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.

No.

What is wrong with that statement? If it sounds major and you find yourself playing a lot of C's, it is therefore D mixolydian? That right there is the whole problem with modes. I'm sorry Jake, you're a nice guy but that is a completely ludicrous statement. If it sounds major and there are a lot of C's then you are either in C major or as a second guess you are in F. Nothing else. Nothing. Else.

That's assuming the D chord is the II chord, and not the I.
The final two chords have a IV V which resolves well back to the D7. Pick up a guitar or keyboard and try it.

He never said there were a lot of C notes, read it again. He said "in 2 spots I bounce or pivot off of C, when going from D > A, and from A > E."

That implies C is a passing tone more so than a target note. Hence C major seems less likely by his statement. I didn't think of F, as he mentioned D7 as one of the chords and thus ran with that being the tonic chord. Key of G, if D7 is indeed the chord used here.

I'm not saying I'm right, I'm just offering speculation. And I'll amend A7 to Am7.

[Ed Fuqua]

Originally Posted by stealyourface

Ok lots of good info here, but how do I plot the rest of the harmony?

What do you want it to sound like? That's the bottom line; the harmony can be diatonic, non-diatonic, modal or have absolutely no relation to key at all. Do you have a melody that goes along with the line you've written, cause that's going to be the second point plotted that will help point a direction. But there's no right or wrong "if it's this note it HAS to be this chord", harmony is as malleable as your ear and wit can make it.

Originally Posted by STEELYFACE

All of these notes are roots, I know that. If I understand your post correctly... wait I'm really confused.

Well no they don't have to be roots, they can be other chord tones, tensions, passing tones, pedal points etc.

Originally Posted by VISAGETHIEF

So what possible keys can this progression be in if these are all root notes? (and diatonic)

It can be in C major or A minor or G major or E minor or D major or B minor or F major or D minor because all of those notes exist as natural in those keys. Given the roots chosen, you could make a good case for Dmajor (that's where you start and the last note could imply the A7 chord, which being the V chord) leads you back to the I of D), but you could make just as good a case for D minor.

But I would highly recommend releasing this idea that some sort of mathematical relationship is going to point to the "right" progression. If you don't have the skills to sit down at a keyboard or guitar, get your (or A) keyboardist or guitarist to sit down and play through a bunch of different chord qualities till you HEAR something that gets across the intent of what you want, that sounds like what you hear in your head going with the line you're playing. You may end up playing all dominant chords, you may end up playing all minors.

Hell, you may end up playing all 7b9#9b13's...

[Agilulfo]

Given the information, it sounds like a I-V-II-IV-V progression in D.