Need help with improv and self-esteem

[Where's Poochie]

Let's get to the facts: I am horrible at improvisation. It's almost like a handicap. I always try it with my teacher and I understand the idea: stick to a certain scale (dorean, lydian, etc.) and try to use the pentatonic scale too so you don't jump all over the place. For me, it is nearly impossible to keep a good rhythm, get a strong melody and to stay within a certain key signature. This could explain why I haven't gotten very far and even perhaps why I got kicked out of a band ways ago (probably also due to my poor social skills, but anyhow).

Is there any way I can possibly practice improv? Any routine that might boost skills?

[trunkshope6]

i ,guess we share the same problem,everything i come up with sounds stupid to me when i jam with friends,i guess the trick is to just jam out with your bass,on your own time, just so you have something to play when you do jam

[BuffaloBass]

I'm a decent player, but feel much the same way. So the other night we're finishing up " Some Kind of Wonderful " ( soul version , not Grand Funk ), and the guitar player seemingly wants a break after some soloing, and we're almost done, so I solo by holding a thumping groove off the low c ( 5 string), and plucking some random ( yet all in Cmaj) notes off the middle C postion ( what 10 fret on the E ? ), and the bar cheers me. VERY FEW NOTES!!!



Oh, I get it, the notes arent as important as holding down the groove!!

Gents, GROOVE FIRST always. But learn that theory so you dont think about "notes" when youre playing. It will take patience young men, patience.

I cheat, I am a position player, and my "theory" always wants to translate into where my fingers go on the fretboard. This is what works for me. ANd you cannot learn this alone. You will need a band, since they will cuase you to fix and hold a groove FIRST.

Peace and blessings.

[Hoover]

Best advice I ever got regarding improvisation: If You Can't Hear It, You Can't Play It.

(or, more likely, you won't play it.)

iow, it's not about what scales or notes or rhythms you're going to chose from, it's a much more abstract and global question: What do you want to do? You need to be able to answer that in the moment before you even begin worrying about how to construct it.

[iriegnome]

I toured a bunch in the Southeastern US. 1 thing I picked up on my nights off was the ability to sit in anywhere and play. Open mic nights are great for this. Sit in everywhere you can. It does not give you time to think, just play. Standing on stage with hundreds of hack guitarists came to be a treat. They all know how to play better than the last who could not play and worse than the next who cannot play.
Sitting in and just playing with a basic structure and going off from there is great experience. Drop kick the lydian/dorian for a while and play.

[hunta]

I learned bass by improvising (with absolutely no clue about theory). Most of the time I see people with problems improvising they are locked into thinking about "what they're allowed to play" in a theoretical sense and you're less concerned with listening. In my opinion improvising is about connecting your ears (and your "inner ear") to your hands and making the sounds in your head come out so others can hear. It's also about listening to the people you're playing with and the interplay between musicians.

My advice, forget the theory for a minute (not forever, theory is huge) and just jam out. Lock yourself in a room and go nuts with your bass, play random notes until something sounds good, and work on that. Think up a little melody in your head and figure it out on your bass. Jam to CD's/Mp3's and don't worry about playing the right bass line, just play whatever you want. (even better, get a looper pedal if you can)

Free your mind, that's improv. Playing unwritten notes in predetermined keys with predetermined scales is not true improvisation for me. Theory is what I fall back on when I can't come up with anything good myself

[spindizzy]

Try concentrating on melodic playing not so much on the syncopation. While you do this sing along with yourself. It may feel a bit awkward at first (actually it will always feel a bit awkward if you are not use to singing) but I am going to guess that if you try you could hum a decent solo, without really knowing any theory, and by singing along with yourself you will begin to find the melody with your fingers.

If you want to do a groove solo like some folks have suggested that's fine but if you are looking to do what some of the more advanced players do, which is switch from being a bass player for a second and think like a horn player (the most commonly emulated player for bassists), you need to break away from that role almost completly. don't worry about time only melody and sing so that you are thinking in phrases as phrasing is an important part of soloing.

Then look up all the threads on chords and scales to start to apply different chordal structures and the different scales that go along with those. Once you have started that study maintain your habit of setting aside time to solo over chord structures in a using a variety of scales but practice those by singing your solo as you play it. Practicing scales in a musical way is the best for setting it hard in your brain so that when its audience time and you are there just to play you don't think about the theory...you just sing with your fingers.

Not saying I am an expert but I have been on this same quest for a bit of time now and so far these tips have helped me improve my approach to melodic bass.

This is of course all IMHO.

Spin

[Where's Poochie]

I can't thank you guys enough! You have no clue how much even an inch of support can boost my confidence.

So play what I would sing? I remember my teacher telling me that a while ago but it never really made much sense until I tried it myself. I guess practicing sounding good is a lot more important than sticking with a scale.

I think I got it And thanks again.

[Pbassred]

Agreeing with everything here, but also remember that the audience knows Sh*t about bass playing. They like excitement and they have a wonderful tool.

The human brain's job is to make sence of the world. To do that, it tells itself that the note makes sence, and that means "in tune". So don't worry about you bass being tuneful Every second. Keep the groove and play as many good notes as you can. stay exciting. If you get to wrong - do it twice. It makes sence!

[tZer]

My $.02 - don't over think it. Try to have something to say, melodically. Improv is not about blowing people's minds with flurries of riffs and licks - it's about extending the fundamental musical foundation that you are all playing over. You can improve your improv by practicing the melodyparts of the songs you normally play. Learn the singer's part - learn the guitar hook - learn the piano melody - use them when you jam and reference them in other songs. People get a kick out of hearing a familiar line in someone's solo.

Carlos Santana is famous for his 32 bar sustained notes in his solos...

I think bass players feel a certain need to blow people's minds with quick licks and demonstrations of impressive finger strength. But honestly, if you take a simply melodic idea and deliver it with confidence and feeling, you golden.

[Pacman]

Improvising isn't really a techniqe, so this probably would do better in General Instruction.

Self Esteem I can't help you with.


But I will echo what the others have said - ear training is paramount, and then you have to do it. A lot.

[Plantbrain]

Originally Posted by tZer

But honestly, if you take a simply melodic idea and deliver it with confidence and feeling, you golden.

Well said:
Listen to "another one bites the dust" by "Queen".
One of the most popular, and easy bass lines out there.

Try playing a simple line, then add licks to it.
Then perhaps a slap, maybe a long slow slide, up or down.....bend a note/string........you have many things in you tool box to play with.

You can play all sorts of notes..but that rhythm is king.


Regards,
Tom

[doctorjazz]

Start transcribing bass solos. Hell, it doesn't even have to be a bass, if you hear something you like, transcribe it. It's best to start with simple stuff of course, I wouldn't be attempting Charlie Parker solos or stuff like that until you've been at it a while.

Also, learn to sing what you'd like to be able to play. I find that I'm a much better improvisor in my head than on my instrument. If you can, transcribe some of what you hear in your head. With enough practice, you'll get better at making what you hear in your head come out on your instrument.

Also, practice scales a lot, and experiment with different patterns like triads (135,246,357,468), thirds (13243546), sevenths (1357,2468,3579), and so on. Knowing your scales in as many configurations as possible besides just straight up and down will make you much more fluent when using them in your solos.

[Raul Amador]

A lot of the players we interview have their ideas about improvisation. Some like the modal approach, others take a more just let if "Flow" , Then there are the more classical approaches. Any way you can listen to the best but you will always have to go with what works best for you!!

Good luck!