New bass player - Cramping?

Zuhzuhzombie!! · #1 06-04-2008, 11:56 AM

Howdy

Used to play guitar many years ago, set it down to do the school/work thing. Decided it was time to start playing in some bands again, but figured I'd switch to bass. Everyone needs a good bass player, and I plan on being one with time and practice. Been having a pretty good time with it, though I've started having some problems with cramping.

Mainly between my thumb and index finger on my fretting hand. Often times playing scales, hammer ons, etc. I thought maybe I'm putting too much pressure on my thumb. I have trouble keeping it over the fret board and instead kinda keep it behind and pressed against it. I do that mainly to make it easier to stretch and reach frets when I'm playing further down on the fret board.

Anyway.

Suggestions? Maybe eventually get used to it? It hurts less the more I play, but I dunno.

Also, any websites that have different scales I can print out to practice with?

I hope this is the right subforum!

TIA

Tapout73 · #2 06-04-2008, 12:03 PM

Isnt your thumb supposed to behind the fretboard?

Zuhzuhzombie!! · #3 06-04-2008, 12:09 PM

I've done a bit of "research". And by "research" I mean watching live vids on YouTube, and it seems to be a bit of both.

I dunno, though. I mainly just keep going back and watching Holger Czukay lay down some funk.

namraj · #4 06-04-2008, 12:13 PM

unlike guitar, bass guitar isn't a perfected art, so if it feels good, do it. and with regards to cramp play through the pain and it will subside, i get the same when playing guitar songs that use alot of bar chords as I'm a traditional chord shaping man at heart.

Just J · #5 06-04-2008, 12:15 PM

You will get some cramping when practicing... it's the same as getting sore when working out. It's hard to understand what you mean, but your thumb should be at the center of the back of the neck.

HOWEVER, you shouldn't press down with your thumb. One tip I read in Gary Willis' 101 tips book is to practice scales without putting your thumb behind the neck (keep it in the air). The work should be done with your fingers, not thumb.

mokkat · #6 06-04-2008, 12:18 PM

Unless you have a thin jazz neck, or a long thumb, I wouldnt recommend trying to cram your thumb up behind the neck. This is an akward for your hand, and the thumb will give the other four fingers a hard time doing precision work on the fretboard

Just J · #7 06-04-2008, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by namraj

unlike guitar, bass guitar isn't a perfected art, so if it feels good, do it. and with regards to cramp play through the pain and it will subside, i get the same when playing guitar songs that use alot of bar chords as I'm a traditional chord shaping man at heart.

oh man, I can imagine some people disagreeing very strongly with that...

Zuhzuhzombie!! · #8 06-04-2008, 12:24 PM

Thanks for the advice!

Maybe I should work a bit on the position of my bass relative to my body. I keep it at around a 30 degree angle, with the bottom of it near my belly button.

Tapout73 · #9 06-04-2008, 02:06 PM

U might get a teacher even if its just for a couple lessons to hone your technique. He can look at the position of your hand and such and make recommendations based on what your feeling.

Pain in the hand should not be sidelined.

brassed · #10 06-06-2008, 08:53 PM

You are cramping because you are bending your wrist at a hard angle. By putting your wrist behind the fingerboard you are trying to soften this angle. Instead keep your thumb behind the fingerboard but not pushing so hard that you cant slide. You may notice that your wrist is bent almost 90 degrees now ... raise your bass up to your nipples. It doesn't look cool but when you can outplay the guys who play with their bass below their knees you will get respect.

Now that your bass is up by your boobies the bend in your wrist shouldn't be bent so hard. The next step is to keep your palm open and off the fret board. When I was learning my teacher put a nine volt battery in my palm when I practiced(you should have one nearby if you play an active bass anyways).

Look at pictures of the great solo bassists playing for examples of this hand position.

"Tension is the enemy" -Arnold Jacobs

~divide and conquer~
Brassed

brassed · #11 06-07-2008, 07:34 PM

Look here:

http://www.adamnitti.com/bass_player_03.shtml

LightGroove · #12 06-07-2008, 07:50 PM

For starters you can do various finger exercises to stretch and to build up dexterity. The bass has heavier strings (obviously) and requires a bit more work.

Very interesting advice.. I've been playing for around 10 years or so and to say you always cramp has to be an overstatement. I may have cramped once in that 10 years and that was from taking a 3 or 4 week break and then jumping in for 3 hours or so. Technique wise I think its normal for those making the crossover to bring the thumb over the top. While yes its all in what you like for hand position its mucho better to rest it about the center (give or take) of the neck. As was mentioned you shouldn't need a ton of pressure.. Heck I've seen people play with a "floating" thumb and all fingers. I would also check the action. Perhaps your strings are a touch high and you are forced to overcompensate . Bass may need a good setup (pure speculation)

I will say I don't play 50 million notes an hour nor do I ever intend to. After all the bass is a bass and I think it was intended to be that ....Others will disagree ..I will say it sounds like you may be bringing the world of a geetar into the low end..tough stuff...

LightGroove · #13 06-07-2008, 07:52 PM

Oh..bass by the boobies thought..Sure it saves the left but doesn't this put more pressure on the right hand??? Always has for me..

harrison_faulkn · #14 06-07-2008, 08:37 PM

Man, when i first started playing, i had a 30" scale 4 string. And I never really cramped to bad. But my next bass was a 35" scale 5 string, and let me tell you, my wrist hated me for a solid month.

ysand · #15 06-08-2008, 03:03 AM

And some advice from me

-Never trust youtube vids! (unless they are from a vastly appreciated artist)

-Try having your fretting fingers as close to the strings as possible, so they won't have to move a lot.

-Try moving your elbow a bit more towards your front, so it can help the fretting hand.

bigtexashonk · #16 06-08-2008, 06:16 AM

Check how high/low you wear your bass. The angle can make a big difference.

Lighten the touch in your fretting hand. If your bass is set up correctly, it's amazing how little touch it can require. Let the amp do the heavy lifting instead of your hands always having to pull the weight.

Use Ibuprofin.

Work on relaxing your neck and shoulder muscles.

Martin Bormann · #17 06-09-2008, 02:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zuhzuhzombie!!

Howdy

Used to play guitar many years ago, set it down to do the school/work thing. Decided it was time to start playing in some bands again, but figured I'd switch to bass. Everyone needs a good bass player, and I plan on being one with time and practice. Been having a pretty good time with it, though I've started having some problems with cramping.

Mainly between my thumb and index finger on my fretting hand. Often times playing scales, hammer ons, etc. I thought maybe I'm putting too much pressure on my thumb. I have trouble keeping it over the fret board and instead kinda keep it behind and pressed against it. I do that mainly to make it easier to stretch and reach frets when I'm playing further down on the fret board.

Anyway.

Suggestions? Maybe eventually get used to it? It hurts less the more I play, but I dunno.

Also, any websites that have different scales I can print out to practice with?

I hope this is the right subforum!

TIA

Okay, it sounds to me that you might have had a poor technique on guitar as well.

First, keep the thumb behind the back of the neck as close to smack dab in the middle as you can.

I also recommend stretching each finger very well and massaging your muscles before playing. Don't forget to massage the forearms too. And don't worry about playing anything with speed. Focus on getting the technique down right.

I'll say the most important part. It should not hurt to play. If you're in pain from playing you are doing it wrong and you need to stop what you're doing immediately. You should absolutely find yourself a decent teacher who is known for having a "good technique." Even if you're not going to study with him for long, he can correct your problem enough so that you're not cramping up from playing.

mutedeity · #18 06-10-2008, 01:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by namraj

unlike guitar, bass guitar isn't a perfected art, so if it feels good, do it. and with regards to cramp play through the pain and it will subside, i get the same when playing guitar songs that use alot of bar chords as I'm a traditional chord shaping man at heart.

With all due respect, this is terrible advice. Guitar is no more or less "perfected" than bass. Not only that, but there is quite a lot of reference material regarding technique for bass playing out there.

The worst part of this post is the "play through it" advice. Never ever listen to anyone that tells you that pain is something you should play through. Carpal tunnel and other repetitive stress injuries are no fun at all to live with as a result of forcing yourself to play through pain that results from bad technique. There will of course be some discomfort when learning to stretch your hands and condition the muscles and tendons involved in playing but you should never keep playing when you are actually in pain.

My best advice is to go and have a few lessons at least for some technical guidance from someone that actually knows what they are talking about and can look at and correct your technical issues properly.

mutedeity · #19 06-10-2008, 01:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Bormann

Okay, it sounds to me that you might have had a poor technique on guitar as well.

First, keep the thumb behind the back of the neck as close to smack dab in the middle as you can.

I also recommend stretching each finger very well and massaging your muscles before playing. Don't forget to massage the forearms too. And don't worry about playing anything with speed. Focus on getting the technique down right.

I'll say the most important part. It should not hurt to play. If you're in pain from playing you are doing it wrong and you need to stop what you're doing immediately. You should absolutely find yourself a decent teacher who is known for having a "good technique." Even if you're not going to study with him for long, he can correct your problem enough so that you're not cramping up from playing.

I would pretty much tell you exactly the same thing as this post, word for word.

JimmyM · #20 06-10-2008, 02:22 AM

Why do people who don't know the answers to questions always post answers to questions? I haven't seen so much bad advice since Sting told Bruce Springsteen he should fire the E Street Band!

What is this "perfected art" business? What does that even mean? And who the heck ever told you that playing through pain is a good idea? If the OP follows this advice, he could easily need surgery before too long. If you have good advice to give, give it, but don't give advice that is just plain wrong.

I think most of your problem from your description (impossible to know without seeing you play but we can guess) is that you have a death grip on the neck and an uncomfortable wrist angle. I strongly suggest finding a good teacher versed in good technique to straighten you out. You don't need to raise your bass to your nipples to be comfortable. I wear my bass fairly low and I'm very comfortable. But you need to get a qualified teacher who can straighten you out and work with you to make your playing more ergonomic.