New Method for learning to play everywhere, in key, all the time...

[kaputsport]

I recently took a class via skype from a guy in England, who taught me how to move around the fretboard using a few simple memorization techniques that had nothing to do with key signatures, learning sharps and flats, or really studying all the modes. It all has to do with the three patterns you can make on a stringed instrument, the order of those patterns across the fretboard, and the order of those patterns in relation to a mode, and the order of the modes.

The three patterns are: Wide, short and long.

Wide: Root-Whole-Whole
Short: Root-Half-Whole
Long: Root-Whole-Half

Typical starting point is on the E string (pick a note) and follow this method: 3 Wide, 2 Short and 2 Long. When moving to short from wide, you need to move your position up a half step for the root like this:

E: 3>5>7
A: 3>5>7
D: 3>5>7
G: 4>5>7

You can start in the middle of many of the sequences (and you will all the time) but this is a generic description.

Root can be anywhere on the fretboard that fits in the context of the song, or key. Find a note that fits, any note, and you can figure out where to go, and how to play in key, everywhere on the fretboard.

For instance, the song you are playing has an E in it. You find the 7th fret of the A string is E, and it fits the music you are playing with. Now, you can test notes around E and see what else fits. If F# fits, you know that it is either wide or Long. It cannot be short, because F would have to fit. By finding that F# fits, the next note will either be G or G#/Ab.

After discovering that G works, you realize your in a Long progression. If you figure out A, B and C also fit, you know that you Started on the root of the second Long progression. The next string (D) will have a wide pattern starting on fret 7. The G string will have the same wide pattern starting on fret 7.

All those notes will fit in the progression in that context. Any note in that setup will be a right note.

Now, to move around the fretboard...

There are 7 modes (pardon my spelling)
Ionian
Dorian
Phrygian
Lydian
Mixolydian
Aeolian
Locrian

Rather than study each mode, and the note there in, you can follow the pattern of the mode, and use this to figure out where to go next, and travel up the neck, across the neck, and down the neck, all while staying in key. You will see that this is exactly what guitarist do while soloing, and you will even notice the greats (Victor Wooten, Marcus Miller, etc) that follow these patterns like a religion. Here are the patters.

Ionian: W W (#2 and #3 of the 3 wide progression)
Dorian: L W
Phrygian: S L
Lidian: W S
Mixalodian: W W (#1 and #2 of the 3 part wide progression)
Aolian: L L
Lorian: S S

One rule that you MUST follow while moving up the neck, or down the neck is that you always use the second note in the progression When going to the next mode.

We will start at open E in Ionian

To get from Ionian to Dorian and play only notes in the key, follow this:

E: 0-2-4 > A: 0-2-4 (Ionian) into...
E: 2-4-5 > A: 2-4-6 (Dorian)

You just played Ionian into Dorian, and can continue the process...

E: 4-5-7 > A: 4-6-8 (Phrygian) into...
E: 5-7-9 > A: 6-7-9 (Lidian: Note the placement of the first Short progression. Exactly 1 half step up from the Wide progression you played on the E string.)
Next...

E: 7-9-11 > A: 7-9-11 (Mixolydian) into...
E: 9-11-12 > A: 9-11-12 (Aeolian) Into...
E: 11-12-14 > A 11-12-14 (Locrian)

You have now gone from open to 14th fret. Play the same sequence of note backwards to walk down.

To Jump Octaves, pick your mode where you are in key, play the complete walk up and play the same mode an octave up.

Start on fret 5 on the E string, using Ionian.

E: 5-7-9 > A: 5-7-9 > D: 7-9-11 > G: 7-9-11

Your new place on the fretboard is now the same mode, but on a different place on the fretboard. To walk backwards down the board on the D and G strings, you follow the modes in reverse. You were in Ionian, so you would move to Locrian, then Aeolian, then Mixolydian, then Lidian, Phrygian, Dorian and back to Ionian.

Once you memorize the Mode phrases (WS, WW, L, LW, SS, LL, etc) and can memorize the order of the modes, you can start playing a song you have never played, hit all right notes and move everywhere on the fret board without missing a beat, or note.

Remember the following:

Your patterns NEVER change: 3 Wide, 2 Short and 2 Long. Wherever in the pattern you begin, you continue.

The Modes never change order. Wherever you find yourself, you use the modes Identifying pattern (WS, LL, LS, WW, etc) and continue the Phrases. Here is the easiest example I can give. We are going to play a fake instrument, with a lot of strings. We will explore the relationship of the patterns. This is written in tab, and will start on the 5th fret.

WWWSSLL... WWWSSLL

1: 5-7-9 Wide
2: 5-7-9 Wide
3: 5-7-9 Wide
4: 6-7-9 Short
5: 6-7-9 Short
6: 5-7-8 Long
7: 5-7-8 Long
8: 5-7-9 Wide
9: 5-7-9 Wide
10: 5-7-9 Wide
11: 6-7-8 Short
12: 6-7-8 Short
13: 5-7-8 Long
14: 5-7-8 Long

Numbers 2 into 3 are Ionian. 4 into 5 is Locrian. 6 into 7 is Aeolian. Get It?

In here, you should be able to identify the different modes, and how to continue the progression.

If you have questions, let me know.

[mambo4]

Not really new IMHO, simply another way to describe the fingering patterns everyone discovers eventually.
The Wide/Short/Long 3 note patterns are just fragments of the 7 note diatonic pattern (as it appears on standard tuned basses)
Useful for for finding the correct key in a jam situation -but not as useful as simply knowing the chords

[kaputsport]

While all of that might be true, if you have not taken theory, know by heart the patterns of these diatonic scales, or know by heart all the modes, key signatures, chords, sharps and flats of each key, you have a tool at your disposal to run with.

If you can memorize the patterns and the modes, you can play anything, anywhere, and get an understanding.

[kaputsport]

Basically, this to me is a simpler way of getting to know your fretboard. I was self taught with everything. I can read some music, but not sight read, and certainly cannot just on a whim solo, but that is my downfall.

Many other people out there are the same way, and to be honest, they will benefit from knowing this. I can say that I understand this is not new to anyone who knows theory, or even has a general grasp on playing the instrument, however...

If you get good with this, and really push to learn and understand it, you can fly around the board, staying in key, basically like a soloing guitar. It'll help write grooves, or lines, and it'll give you the ability to jam (as you said).

[Febs]

Originally Posted by kaputsport

While all of that might be true, if you have not taken theory, know by heart the patterns of these diatonic scales, or know by heart all the modes, key signatures, chords, sharps and flats of each key, you have a tool at your disposal to run with.

If you can memorize the patterns and the modes, you can play anything, anywhere, and get an understanding.

The only pattern you need to know to understand the major scale and its modes is this:

WWH WWWH

You can derive every mode from that pattern, which is essentially all you're doing with your method, except that your method doesn't explicitly recognize which moves from string to string are half steps and which are whole steps.

Ionian: WWHWWWH

Start on the second degree, and play the pattern, and you get Dorian:

Dorian: WHWWWH W

Start on the third degree, and play the pattern, and you get Phrygian:

Prygian HWWWH WW

The other modes are derived the same way:

Lydian: WWWHWWH
Mixolydian WWHWWHW
Aeolian: WHWWHWW
Locrian: HWWHWWW

Your exercise is essentially doing exactly the same thing. All you need to do is recognize that when you move from one pattern to another, it's the following intervals:

W --> W = half step
W --> S = requires moving up a fret = whole step
S --> S = whole step
S --> L = whole step

So, take your example for Ionian (Wide Wide Short):

Wide = Whole Whole
[next string] Wide = Half Whole Whole
[next string + 1 fret] Short = Whole Half (and then another whole if you continue)

So you end up with: Whole Whole Half Whole Whole Whole Half

[Febs]

It's probably easier to see the patterns with a fixed width font:

Ionian:     W W H W W W H
Dorian:     W H W W W H W
Phrygian:   H W W W H W W
Lydian:     W W W H W W H
Mixolydian: W W H W W H W
Aeolian:    W H W W H W W
Locrian:    H W W H W W W

[stratovani]

Reminds me a lot of the Rosetta Stone of Guitar training method, which works in pretty much the same way. Check it out and see.

About The Rosetta Stone Of Guitar lessons :: rSoGuitar

[Russell L]

Originally Posted by mambo4

Not really new IMHO, simply another way to describe the fingering patterns everyone discovers eventually.
The Wide/Short/Long 3 note patterns are just fragments of the 7 note diatonic pattern (as it appears on standard tuned basses)
Useful for for finding the correct key in a jam situation -but not as useful as simply knowing the chords

I totally agree.

I believe this "new" method misses some things that good ole standard theory entails. I prefer to think of the root as the tonal center for the harmony at hand, and not the beginning of a three-note partial scale, for instance. Perhaps if I didn't already have a degree in theory, and didn't know anything I could catch on here, but I'm afraid it's too late for me. I appreciate the thinking that's in it, though. However, my recommendation is still that one learn standard theory. Besides, it's the stuff that is being talked everywhere. You will be able to communicate with more folks with it. Then, if you like, embrace concepts such as this, and it will make even more sense to you.

Don't get me wrong, please, I'm not talking down on this, I'm just an old loon who got his theory feet wet decades ago. This is interesting and it's good to be thinking.

[cire113]

Wow i figured all this out by myself! while playing for only 3 years... crazy....

I realized its all the same patterns no matter what you play pretty much for all the modes...


I think they are called tetra chords actually...

really all you need to understand is the major scale and you can play all the modes... its the so simple IMO..

But isnt there alot of scales and stuff outside of the major scale and modes????





*** ALso i can almost automatically find the key in any song because im never half step away from a "right" note... its so easy... im fearless when i solo

[kaputsport]

Originally Posted by cire113

But isnt there alot of scales and stuff outside of the major scale and modes????

It is all in there.

[Fergie Fulton]

Originally Posted by kaputsport

While all of that might be true, if you have not taken theory, know by heart the patterns of these diatonic scales, or know by heart all the modes, key signatures, chords, sharps and flats of each key, you have a tool at your disposal to run with.

If you can memorize the patterns and the modes, you can play anything, anywhere, and get an understanding.

Great to read that this has helped, but i can tell you that unless you understand why all this is so, then it is pointless in the development of your playing skills. If you are happy with what it gives you then so be it, that is for you and you only to be happy with.

Your opening line of "while all that may be true" is an example of what you have understood and learned. Memorizing is not the same as understanding, the same as reading is not learning if it is not understood. What you have is a great tool to help you understand, so don't stop here, find out what this tool is telling you and understand what it relates to and understand why or it is no different to why a parrot can speak, but not form ideas or understand question, it just repeats what it hears.

Great post and worth the time taken to do so, good luck with everything.

[Febs]

Originally Posted by kaputsport

It is all in there.

Not necessarily.

This method won't work particularly well over diminished chords or altered chords, for example.

[Russell L]

Then there's the whole-tone scale, abbreviated scales, Eastern scales, etc., etc....

The reason your idea works for the scales and modes you are referring to is simply because the major scale (Ionian Mode) and the other six modes we normally concern ourselves with in Western music are seven-note scales and contain only two half-steps. That is, in the major scale the half-steps occur between 3 and 4, and between 7 and the octave. Or, in Dorian, they are between 2 and 3, and between 6 and 7. The other modes do the same, but in different places.

Standard theory really explains a lot.

[kaputsport]

Well, I gotta say I am surprised. The guys on the Marshall forum were clawing to get a seat to take this class. Every guitarist I have spoken with thinks this is the key to unlocking the world, and I was shocked at how easy it made getting around the fretboard was.

Guess there is a place and method for everything and everyone, and Talkbass just isn't it.

[Fergie Fulton]

Originally Posted by kaputsport

Well, I gotta say I am surprised. The guys on the Marshall forum were clawing to get a seat to take this class. Every guitarist I have spoken with thinks this is the key to unlocking the world, and I was shocked at how easy it made getting around the fretboard was.

Guess there is a place and method for everything and everyone, and Talkbass just isn't it.

Not really a surprise, but to be expected that players will always look for easy options. But the truth of the matter is learning your craft correctly and fully is what is being endorsed here, not short cuts, or a small part of the info out there. The problem is and to quote a certain Jeff Berlin " the student is not qualifeid to decide what is and what is not best for them".
This is carried through in most teachings in any subject, you get all the facts and information, then you decide what you want to use and what not to use. In ideas and teachings like this you don't get the chance to decide if it is worth investing your time in or where it will lead, because you cannot judge its worth. As some have shown here what you have learned is a small part of something, and as i have said it is a tool to help make a bigger picture, it is not the picture.

Good luck with it all and keep on seeking out information to learn.

[Lacuga]

Originally Posted by kaputsport

Well, I gotta say I am surprised. The guys on the Marshall forum were clawing to get a seat to take this class. Every guitarist I have spoken with thinks this is the key to unlocking the world, and I was shocked at how easy it made getting around the fretboard was.

Guess there is a place and method for everything and everyone, and Talkbass just isn't it.

I totally agree. It is mystifying that some people want to snipe at a method that some teachers (e.g., kaputsport's) think is worthwhile and which he (kaputsport) took the time to share with the group. I, for one, thank you for helping newbies like me out.

For the record, although I am a newbie I am working hard to memorize my scales and to work my way around the fretboard effortlessly. I think kaputsport's method will help me a lot in this endeavor.

[Russell L]

Aw, ya'll, no one is sniping or criticizing, just pointing out that there is a bigger picture that this method is a part of. And go easy on those who have already learned standard theory and understand the ins and outs of it ALL. Otherwise, you'd be the one who is sniping.

[Febs]

Originally Posted by Lacuga

I totally agree. It is mystifying that some people want to snipe at a method that some teachers (e.g., kaputsport's) think is worthwhile and which he (kaputsport) took the time to share with the group. I, for one, thank you for helping newbies like me out.

For the record, although I am a newbie I am working hard to memorize my scales and to work my way around the fretboard effortlessly. I think kaputsport's method will help me a lot in this endeavor.

I don't think that anyone is criticizing the method for what it is. I said in the other thread where kaputsport posted it that it is probably a worthwhile exercise. My criticism is with the suggestion that it is a substitute for learning the theory behind the exercise and the claim that these patterns will work in all situations.

[mambo4]

Originally Posted by Russell L

, no one is sniping or criticizing, just pointing out that there is a bigger picture that this method is a part of.

+1 I dont mean any disrespect at all.

In fact that's exactly how I find the key when noodling with unfamiliar music:
1. find a note that fits
2. explore neighboring notes to find where in the WWHWWWH pattern I am.

(but also 3. having found the key, use theory knowledge and experience with various styles to extrapolate the chord progression and add Ideas that don't necessarily fit into a single key/scale but still serve the song)

[silky smoove]

The crux of this biscuit is "how" versus "why."

"How" gets you one part of the equation, "why" gets you the whole thing. I prefer "why," but certainly don't begrudge anyone who's content with only learning "how."