A newbie question about chord progressions

[Guz2]

What exactly is a chord progression and how does it differ from a riff?

[MalcolmAmos]

As it relates to us and playing bass guitar:

A chord progression is a selection of chords.
A riff is a selection of notes.

A chord progression provides the harmony for the melody notes.
A riff provides the melody notes or in bass our bass line, aka bass line riff.

The actual definition of a riff could include a selection of chords as well as notes as in a chord melody or a finger style riff.
http://www.music.vt.edu/musicdictionary/


That said; A riff for bass could be the arpeggio of the chord you play the riff over, i.e. The Chord progression of :

C / / /| F / / /| G7 / / /| C / / /|| could have a bass riff (bass line) of:
R-3-5-3 in each measure.

Over the C chord the R-3-5-3 would be C-E-G-E notes.
That R-3-5-3 over the F chord would be the F-A-C-A notes. Change the root note to correspond with the new chord and your riff pattern provides the notes of the F chord automatically for you.
And over the G7 chord your R-3-5-3 riff could change to R-3-5-b7 to reflect the dominant 7 note, i.e. G-B-D-F.

Major Scale root on the 4th string, aka generic major riff pattern.
G|---2---|-------|---3---|---4---| 1st string
D|---6---|-------|---7---|---R---|
A|---3---|---4---|-------|---5---|
E|-------|---R---|-------|---2---|4th string


Ask specific questions.

Have fun.

[DudeistMonk]

learn some simple punk/pop/rock/12 bar blues and the roll of chord progressions will become very clear. In punk especially the bass will almost always root the chords making it very easy to see the changes. The chord progression is the overall harmonic structure of the song and you and the rhythm guitar are responsible for defining it.

A riff to me = any pattern, either played across each chord like Malcom demonstrated or when you look at riff rock stuff like zepplin where a riff extends across measures and implies a chord progression within itself.

[Guz2]

Thanks guys

[Stumbo]

Here's more stuff to check out from vt.edu:

Blues chord progressions explained w/ audio samples

Chords explained with audio examples

General Music Theory info (most)with audio examples
http://www.music.vt.edu/musicdiction...endixmain.html

[MalcolmAmos]

Great links - thanks.

[Guz2]

Just one more question - people get into trouble for "stealing riffs", but I'm told hundreds of songs have the same chord progression. How does this work? Also, if there are a lot of often-used chord progressions then doesn't that mean music should be a lot more similar-sounding?

Thanks

[MalcolmAmos]

Originally Posted by Guz2

Just one more question - people get into trouble for "stealing riffs", but I'm told hundreds of songs have the same chord progression. How does this work? Also, if there are a lot of often-used chord progressions then doesn't that mean music should be a lot more similar-sounding?

Thanks

I think that is a question we all have asked at one time or another. The I IV V chord progression contains every note of the I tonic chord's scale, which means those three chords will harmonize with every melody note within that scale. So even though you are using that some old tried and true I IV V your 7 melody notes coming from the scale gives the song a unique tune. The I IV V has been the go to chord progression for thousands of songs.

I know you can say that every song played in the Key of C use those same 7 melody notes, so all songs in the key of C sooner or later have to sound the same. It is amazing what we can do with 7 melody notes.

[Fergie Fulton]

Originally Posted by Guz2

Just one more question - people get into trouble for "stealing riffs", but I'm told hundreds of songs have the same chord progression. How does this work? Also, if there are a lot of often-used chord progressions then doesn't that mean music should be a lot more similar-sounding?

Thanks

If we compare that to the alphabet there are 26 letters, then all written word should eventually be the same, but its not. Its in the context of the imagination to how we use what we have, not limit it.
Yes we have lots of similar novels with similar plots, books with similar information, but it is in the context of how that is conveyed to the reader that makes it interesting and different. Music is no different.

[Minotauros]

Originally Posted by Guz2

Just one more question - people get into trouble for "stealing riffs", but I'm told hundreds of songs have the same chord progression. How does this work?

If a riff is a melody, a melody can be copyrighted, a chord progression cannot be copyrighted.

The biggest example was over My Sweet Lord. It wasn't the whole song that was sued for, just the melody. The melody was allegedly copyrighted by the Chiffons and/or the song's writer(s).

The chords of the intro and verses of the the first part of the song, Em A are also used in Venus by Shocking Blue. Where you get into trouble is copying someone's published and copyrighted riff or melody. Though I'm sure there are exceptions. Dust in the Wind is a chord progression you'd probably get your ass handed to you for.

[Guz2]

Originally Posted by MalcolmAmos

I think that is a question we all have asked at one time or another. The I IV V chord progression contains every note of the I tonic chord's scale, which means those three chords will harmonize with every melody note within that scale. So even though you are using that some old tried and true I IV V your 7 melody notes coming from the scale gives the song a unique tune. The I IV V has been the go to chord progression for thousands of songs.

I know you can say that every song played in the Key of C use those same 7 melody notes, so all songs in the key of C sooner or later have to sound the same. It is amazing what we can do with 7 melody notes.

So your saying that the chord part is exactly the same, it's the lead part that's different? What if there is no lead part?

[MalcolmAmos]

Well a I IV V aka G C D is going to sound like any other G C D, unless you change something - rhythm, accent, etc.

However you can change those chords ever so slightly, take it from chord harmony to chord melody.

Google chord melody and I think you will see how this can be done.

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=...OLTLB&PC=SUN1#

Chords are made up of notes we just start using the notes within the chord as melody. The first video shown talks about chord melody in a very easy to understand way.

Good luck

[JTE]

If a guitarist just strums one measure each of the chords A, F#m, D, and E7, that's NOT a song. But if they then sing the melody to "Stand By Me", or "Every Breath You Take", or "Tell Laura I Love Her", or any of the gazillion other songs that use that same basic I vi IV V progression then they're doing a song.

John

[MalcolmAmos]

You asked; "What if there is no lead part". JTE answered you question best. There will be a lead part. The tune is the lead part. With out the tune - melody notes - you only have part of the song. The lead is furnished by the solo instrument, lead guitar, horns, fiddle or vocalist. When the vocalist sings that's the lead.

[Guz2]

It's all making sense now! Thanks guys

Really sorry to ask yet /another/ question, but do the same rules of chord progressions still apply if you use power chords?

[Bruce Lindfield]

Originally Posted by Guz2

It's all making sense now! Thanks guys

Really sorry to ask yet /another/ question, but do the same rules of chord progressions still apply if you use power chords?

Power chords are not technically chords - they give you no information about major/minor - so are ambiguous about what key etc.

But you have to get away from thinking about "rules" - there are no rules and if there are - there's nothing to stop you breaking them!

If you mean copyright - you can't break copyright by playing a few power chords - but if you play the opening to "Smoke on the water" - you will get kicked out of the guitar shop!!

[MalcolmAmos]

Let's change your question to; "If the song uses power chords how does that affect our bass line"?

As Bruce pointed out - a power chord is just the root and the 5th. A bass line over a C5 could be repetitive C notes or R-5 (C-G). Like always it's pretty well left up to us to fit that into a groove that works with the song.

Now when do you see power chords? Metal will use power chords and Metal will lend itself to repetitive 8 root notes to the bar.

Why do people use power chords? For a hard driving beat. Power chords let us accomplish that. The rule here, if we need one, is that old; If it sounds good it's good.

[JTE]

Another reason guitarists like power chords is the absence of the third makes playing them with distortion sound better. The overtones that get emphasized with distortion clash when the third is in there. Play an open C chord (it's got two thords in it) on a Les Paul through a dimed Mesa-Boogie. That clash is the overtones.

John