Non modal music that has no key center

[BobaFret]

This may sound stupid but I'm pretty new to the theory area of music. I've started trying to read music and really focus on melody and chords etc.

What I don't understand totally is whether or not a piece of music can just be chords put together that don't all fit within a given key. It's sounds silly but I currently am not sure if what I'm trying to figure out just isn't making sense or if it just doesn't have a key center for the entire piece.

I'm not talking about a really weird abstract kind of thing but in a somewhat basic rock/pop song format.

Please help a brother out and drop some knowledge.

[Ed Fuqua]

yes, there's plenty of music (some of it quite affecting and meaningful) that is put together by folks with a limited harmonic vocabulary. It may mean they you are not in "functional harmony world" where every dominant is pointing at a new key center. It may be there because they want to use a D chord and the only one they know how to make is a D7. It's not modal, it's not functional. So what is it?

Well you kind of have to look for shared tones, find ways to hear a line arc between the harmony that is there, treat the chords as if they are kind of stand alone entities, kind of "modal of the moment".

But what specifically are you talking about?

[BobaFret]

Let's say someone wrote something that looks like a 1-3-5 by root but as you say they use all dominant 7th chords. Analyzing each chord doesn't bring me to any "real" key center. I just wonder if I'm wasting my time trying to figure out keys when they don't really exist.

[Ed Fuqua]

Without looking at the harmonic structure (jeez what's the big secret?) I'd say stop trying to pound that square peg in the round hole.

It sounds like you're talking about something like:

C7 D7 E7,(1 3 5 by root movement) is that right?

C E G Bb
D F# A C
E G# B D

Lots of common tones, when you parse the scales out you get even more. Lots of tones a half step apart. but YES, no key center, really.

[BobaFret]

Being so new to looking at music this way I just wanted to be sure that some songs may sound good but not have a key center. You answered this for me and I am thankful.

Sometimes it's hard to ask a question properly without really knowing what I'm asking for ( if that makes sense ).

[JimmyM]

Key centers aren't strict "you must do THIS" rules. They're merely guidelines, and lots of people write songs around the key center then use notes and chords that aren't in the key signature.

[BobaFret]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

Key centers aren't strict "you must do THIS" rules. They're merely guidelines, and lots of people write songs around the key center then use notes and chords that aren't in the key signature.

Thank you.

[mambo4]

It is completely common place for pop, rock and folk songs to "violate" the rules of harmonic theory. This is one of the reasons so many of us encourage thinking in chord tones and chord changes over thinking in keys, scales, and modes.

That said, in my experience,(pop/rock) even when a chord progression is not technically "correct" relative to where it resolves.(either because of the "wrong" flavor of chord or a chord based on an "outside" root note) Usually there is a specific diatonic key more or less implied by what is going on, and identifying the closest thing to a "proper" key can be helpful in developing our ideas.

[MalcolmAmos]

Back to the OP ....... Two basic types of music; tonal (tonality) and modal. Look up the definition of each: http://www.music.vt.edu/musicdictionary/

My thoughts on the subject.
Tonal will revolve around a chord progression that resolves to a tonic. The V-I cadence. The phrase resolves to the tonic for closure.
Modal will revolve around a modal vamp who's function is to sustain the mood. The phrase is sustained it may be hard to hear closure.

If you do not resolve to a tonic or sustain the modal mood, you've just strung together some chords that are not accomplishing anything specific. Which may be what BobaFret was talking about.

Most run of the mill songs do fall into one key and pretty much stay there through out the song. Yes it is acceptable to go out, but, you should come back in to end the song or phrase.

Originally Posted by mambo4

..... This is one of the reasons so many of us encourage thinking in chord tones and chord changes over thinking in keys, scales, and modes.

I agree, in bass if we catch the chord tones and the chord changes we've done our job. We've elected to play the song the songwriter wrote and we should base our baseline upon the chords the songwriter selected.