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  #1  
Old 10-22-2011, 12:30 PM
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Noob needs help with chords!

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I'm a total beginner on theory, and have decided that I'd like to start by learning how chords and arpeggios are formed.

Is anyone able to give me an overview in as simple terms as possible?

I did a search and there was so much information that I didn't know where to start - read through a few threads and found myself overloaded

I play rock, country and metal, and am not really planning on becoming a musical genius, just want to know enough to be able to get along in a jam without embarrassing myself
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  #2  
Old 10-22-2011, 12:35 PM
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They are formed using every other note of a scale. A Cmaj chord contained a c,e,&g. That's the 1st, 3rd,and 5th degree of the c major scale.
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Old 10-22-2011, 12:53 PM
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Is there any way of knowing how to form chords without knowing much about scales? I was hoping to be able to concentrate on them at a later date.
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Old 10-22-2011, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil Undead View Post
Is there any way of knowing how to form chords without knowing much about scales? I was hoping to be able to concentrate on them at a later date.
It is important to know your scales, but just as important to concentrate on chord tones. This great site explains it ( and lots of other theory ) in an easy to understand way.



Chord Tones Are Primary
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Old 10-22-2011, 01:53 PM
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You'll need to know your scales eventually and it'll make it a lot easy to learn about chords if you know how scales are constructed. In fact, it's almost too easy on bass or guitar. You'll soon learn the patterns that make up each scale as well and chords and arpeggios ect. And to answer your question directly- no not really, just learn your scale and the chords will come super easy.
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Old 10-22-2011, 02:25 PM
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Basso Ridiculoso: Spelling Chords Fastly by Knowing Your A,C,E's

This explains how to get the raw notes of any chord by just remembering 7 letters:

F A C E G B D

you can actually start on any note, but if you keep them in that order you can build any chord very fast in your head.

There are pictures and everythang on how to do it.
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Old 10-22-2011, 02:54 PM
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Look for one of the many posts by TBer JTE where he explains "stacking thirds". And take his advice about not just reading about what it means, but take the time to actually write them out.

It was a light-bulb moment for me when I was just starting out!

You'll need to know a bit about scales so you can write out the notes prior to stacking them, and you'll also need to know a bit about intervals so you'll be able to determine for yourself
after you've formed the chords, which ones are Major, Minor, Dominant, or Diminished.

But start with the C Major scale until you understand the concept.
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Old 10-22-2011, 03:07 PM
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Learn interval spacing when you start to grasp the idea of chords. It is nothing you want to generally think about when forming a chord, but it explains the spacing of notes within a chord.

From there, look at your fretboard and learn the patterns. If you learn R, 3, 5, and 8... You just need to fill in the missing spaces. A ii chord will be minor in major and minor chord progressions (Which are based off the scale - which is why it is important to know the scales) So now you have I, ii, IV, V and I (VIII). The iii/III will change based on M or m scale, as well as the vi/VI and VII/vii/viidim.

Take small steps and you will start to recognize many things. If what I say does not make sense, look back at it later on when other things start to click. You will realize how simple things can be once you get over that initial hump of learning.
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  #9  
Old 10-22-2011, 03:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil Undead View Post
I'm a total beginner on theory, and have decided that I'd like to start by learning how chords and arpeggios are formed.
I play rock, country and metal, and am not really planning on becoming a musical genius, just want to know enough to be able to get along in a jam without embarrassing myself
Chords first --- gotta know your scales first as the chords are made from the scale's notes. Gotta get all the sharps and or flats that are in the scale into the chord for it to be correct. Help yourself to some of these charts.

Major Scale Chart
C D E F G A B...............Notice the C scale has no Sharps
G A B C D E F#.............and the G scale has one, the F#
D E F# G A B C#...........and the D scale keeps the F# and
A B C# D E F# G#.........adds the C#. Then the A scale keeps
E F# G# A B C# D#.......everything and adds the G#. See how
B C# D# E F# G# A#.....it builds on it's self.
F# G# A# B C# D# E#
C# D# E# F# G# A# B#
F G A Bb C D E.............Look what happens with the flat scales
Bb C D Eb F G A...........F has one the Bb, then the Bb scale keeps
Eb F G Ab Bb C D.........it's self and adds the the Eb. Same thing
Ab Bb C Db Eb F G.......the sharp scales did...
Db Eb F Gb Ab Bb C
Gb Ab Bb Cb Db Eb F
Cb Db Eb Fb Gb Ab Bb

Memory pegs:
See God Destroy All Earth By F#irey C#haos. Order of the scales with sharps.
Fat cats go down alleys eating birds. Order of the sharps.
Farmer brown eats apple dumplings greasily cooked. Order of the scales with flats.
The key signature is showing three sharps. What scale has three sharps? C has none, G has one, D has two, A has three. Which sharps? Fat = F#, Cat = C# and Go = G# so the A major scale has three sharps, F#, C# and G#.

Natural Minor Scale Chart
A B C D E F G ................Notice how the 6th column of the
E F# G A B C D................Major scale becomes the 1st column
B C# D E F# G A..............in the minor scale and how the 7th
F# G# A B C# D E............column of the Major scale is now the
C# D# E F# G# A B..........2nd column in the minor scale. And
G# A# B C# D# E F#........yep, the 1st column in the Major scale
D# E# F# G# A# B C#......is now the 3rd column, etc. etc.
A# B# C# D# E# F# G#....Ask your self why? Hint, think relative minor.
D E F G A Bb C
G A Bb C D Eb F
C D Eb F G Ab Bb
F G Ab Bb C Db Eb
Bb C Db Eb F Gb Ab
Eb F Gb Ab Bb Cb Db
Ab Bb Cb Db Eb Fb Gb

Now take those scales and stack 3rds and you get the chords for each scale. For example:
C scale is C, D, E, F, G, A, B now stack 3rds (every other note)
C chord will include the C, E & G note. Take it one more C, E, G, B and you have the notes in the Cmaj7 chord. Next will be D something - D, F, A notes make the Dm chord. Minor???? Minor chords have a flatted 3. The D scale has the F# so it's been flatted to F thus the second chord in the key of C is a Dm chord. Yes, that will take awhile to get that where you understand it. If you print this off and keep it handy how to stack 3rds and come up with the chords in each key will be waiting for you when you are ready for it. There are several strings on this forumn about stacking 3rds. Do a search or ask Google for help.

Now Jamming - Assume the chord progression most used in that type of music (I-IV-V or ii-V-I, etc.) then play chord tones. Which ones? Start with the root, when that is comfortable add the 5. When you can do a root five and keep up with the music add an 8, then the 3. R-3-5-8 will play a bunch of bass. Here is some of the rest of the story.

Print this off and start a reference three ring binder.

Your fretboard:


Code:
Major Scale Box. 

G|---2---|-------|---3---|---4---| 1st string
D|---6---|-------|---7---|---8---|
A|---3---|---4---|-------|---5---|
E|-------|---R---|-------|---2---|4th string

Place the root (R) on the C note 4th string 8th fret and the C major scale await you.
Place the root (R) on the C note and play the R-3-5 and you have just played the notes of the C major chord aka C arpeggio. Chord progression for this song is G-C-D. Place your box root on a G on the 3rd string. Where is your C? Where is the D? The next song's progression is C-F-G. Place your box root on a C on the 3rd string. Where is your F? Where is your G? Yep, piece of cake.

Basic Chords. Find your root note then play the major scale box.
Major Triad = R-3-5 = C
Minor Triad = R-b3-5 = Cm
Diminished Chord = R-b3-b5 = Cdim

7th Chords
Maj7 = R-3-5-7 = Cmaj7
Minor 7 = R-b3-5-b7 = Cm7
Dominant 7 = R-3-5-b7 = C7
½ diminished = R-b3-b5-b7 = Cm7b5
Full diminished = R-b3-b5-bb7 = Cm7b5 with the 7 flatted one more fret. Very seldom will you see this.

Scales. Scales are a right of passage thing. We gotta do them. Melody comes from scales. Hint} I use the major scale and the natural minor scale as home base and then modify as needed. Leave out a couple of notes or add a note or two and you've got something new.

Major Scale = R-2-3-4-5-6-7 Place the root note then play the major scale box pattern. The box will put the correct notes under your fingers automatically.
Major Pentatonic = R-2-3-5-6 Major scale without the 4 & 7
Major Bebop = R-2-3-4-5-b6-6-7 Major scale with a b6 added
Major Dominant Bebop = R-2-3-4-5-6-b7-7 Major scale with both b7 and 7
Natural Minor Scale = R-2-b3-4-5-b6-b7 Major scale with the 3, 6 & 7 flatted
Minor Pentatonic = R-b3-4-5-b7 Natural minor scale without the 2 & 6
Blues = R-b3-4-b5-5-b7 Minor pentatonic with the b5 blue note added
Harmonic Minor Scale = R-2-b3-4-5-b6-7 Natural minor scale with a natural 7
Melodic Minor Scale = R-2-b3-4-5-6-7 Major scale with a b3
Minor Bebop = R-2-b3-3-4-5-6-b7 Dorian with a natural 3 added
That’s enough to get you going.



Generic notes you can use to build a bass line. Yep we play bass lines. Scales are a passage thing we all have to do to get our fingers knowing where to go and what to do once we get there. Chord tones and bass lines are what we do 97.95% of the time.

The root, five and eight are generic and fit most any chord. Remember the diminished has a flatted 5.
The 3 is generic to all major chords. See a major chord R-3-5-8 is a generic bass line that will work.
The b3 is generic to all minor chords. See a minor chord R-b3-5-8 is a generic bass line that will work.
The 7 is generic to all maj7 chords. R-3-5-7.
The b7 is generic to all dominant seventh and minor seventh chords. R-3-5-b7 or R-b3-5-b7.
The 6 is neutral and adds color, help yourself to 6’s. I like R-3-5-6 for major chords. Has a great sound.
The 2 and 4 make good passing notes. Don’t linger on them or stop on them, keep them passing.
In making your bass line help yourself to those notes, just use them correctly.
Remember roots, fives, eights and the correct 3 will play a lot of bass. Makes since that these generic combinations be in muscle memory.
Google -- fake chord, "happy birthday" and see what you can do with that. Happy Birthday Guitar Chords One root note per lyric word. Happy and birthday get two root notes each. Why? They are two syllable words. Here is a good fake chord selection that goes beyond chord tones and gives you the melody notes. Happy Birthday - Free Guitar Tablature (tab) and chords

Way too much to digest all at once. That is why I asked you to print it off and put it somewhere you can get to it when you need it. When you do need it take it a little at a time. Eat as much of this elephant as you need to satisfy your hunger, but, not enough to make you sick. Little bit at a time.

Ask specific questions.

Last edited by MalcolmAmos : 10-26-2011 at 08:58 AM.
  #10  
Old 10-24-2011, 12:24 PM
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Something I've seen recommended numerous times on talkbass is "Edly's Music Theory for Practical People". I'm reading it slowly when I have some time, but I've had some nice "aha!" moments.
  #11  
Old 10-24-2011, 12:44 PM
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Thanks guys, I really appreciate this. I'm going to sit down with this when I have a couple of spare hours and go through it with a fine tooth comb
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  #12  
Old 10-26-2011, 07:26 AM
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not usre if someone mentioned this but the most common chords are made of certain intervals namely 3rds , important for bass, guitar et c
major triad for example is made up of a major 3rd and minor 3rd
so C to E is the maj3rd and E G is a minor3rd maj came first therefore its major CEG
C to Eb is minor and Eb to G is major min came first therefore min C Eb G
a minor flat five chord is the same but with two min 3rds C Eb Gb
an augmented chord has two maj 3rds C E G#
but i should mention my advice is just for root position chords
they basic shapes thought, the 3rds are where it's at 8)
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