noobs question: minor second

[Neel]

Hey guys, Ive been teaching myself theory and bass, and I have an odd question.

When playing a c minor scale, the second note is a D. When playing a c major scale, the second note is a D.

Why, then, is a minor second only a half-step and a major second a whole-step.

I just don't get the minor second interval, or perhaps I don't get intervals in general.

[Scopaz]

You are mixing apples and oranges. Scales and intervals are two separate things. Minor when referring to scales or chords generally implies that the third of the chord or scale is flatted. When referring to intervals, minor is the major interval flatted.

[shostkontrabass]

It's not the 2nd that determines whether a scale/chord is major or minor. It's the third. For instance, try playing an F# on your g string (11th fret) and your open d string at the same time. That's a major third. Now try playing an F natural (10th fret) with the open D. That's a minor third. Hear the difference?

In both major and minor scales, there is always a whole step between the 1st and 2nd scale degrees, it's just how it works. The reason why a half step above the root of the scale is called a minor second has to do with the names of the intervals, the difference between "perfect" and "major." Perfect unison, perfect 4th, perfect 5th, and perfect octave. Major 2nd, major 3rd, major 6th, and major 7th. When a perfect interval is lowered a half step, it becomes diminished; when raised a half step, it becomes augmented. Similarly, when a major interval is raised a half step, it is also called augmented, but when it is lowered a half step, it becomes minor. Therefore, when the 2nd degree of a scale is lowered a half step, it becomes a minor interval. This, however, does not apply to unaltered major/minor scales, it's just the terminology.

I hope that answered your question and wasn't too confusing. Good luck!

[Neel]

Thanks guys. For some reason, I was under the impression that interval ames came from their place in the scale relative to the first note (possibly because that seems to be the case for many of them).

Now, I realize that the intervals are not quite the same as the different elements of a scale, but they are not hard to learn at all.

I guess I just have to get the sounds down, which I am working on.

[DocBop]

Intervals do come from scales, but intervals can be altered too. That is where major, minor, perfect, dimished, and augments labels coming. So in a C major scale C to D is a major second. Flat the D to Db and it is now a minor second. Another in a C major scale C to G is a perfect fifth. Flat the G to Gb and it is now a diminished fifth.

So major interval flatted become minor. Perfect intervals flatted become dimished. Raise an interval and it become augmented.

Now to make things more confusing... Intervals sometime are a pure measure of distance between to notes. Someone might say this key isn't working lets take the song up a 4th. So that has nothing to do with a scale, but distance.

[Neel]

Originally Posted by DocBop

Intervals do come from scales, but intervals can be altered too. That is where major, minor, perfect, dimished, and augments labels coming. So in a C major scale C to D is a major second. Flat the D to Db and it is now a minor second. Another in a C major scale C to G is a perfect fifth. Flat the G to Gb and it is now a diminished fifth.

So major interval flatted become minor. Perfect intervals flatted become dimished. Raise an interval and it become augmented.

Now to make things more confusing... Intervals sometime are a pure measure of distance between to notes. Someone might say this key isn't working lets take the song up a 4th. So that has nothing to do with a scale, but distance.

So the Major intervals are in fact, the distance within the major scale, and the minor scale intervals are all of the major scae intervals that are not perfect, but knocked down a half step?

And when a musician says "lets take it up a ______", I'm guessing they can only say 4th, 5th, or tritone without adding a "major" or "minor" in there, correct?

[DocBop]

Originally Posted by Neel

So the Major intervals are in fact, the distance within the major scale, and the minor scale intervals are all of the major scae intervals that are not perfect, but knocked down a half step?

And when a musician says "lets take it up a ______", I'm guessing they can only say 4th, 5th, or tritone without adding a "major" or "minor" in there, correct?

I was assuming you knew how scales are constructed and sounds like you are not up to speed. First get a theory book and read up on scale constuction or major and minor scales. The distance between the notes and the distance between the root of the scale and the notes.


Quickly not all intevals of a major scale are major. You have the root and the octave. Then the 2nd, 3rd, 6th, and 7th are major intervals. The 4th and 5th are perfect intervals. If you flat a major interval it is called a minor interval. Flat a perfect interval and it is called diminished.

Now a natural minor scale is composed of major, minor, and perfect intervals. You have root and octave, major 2, minor 3, perfect 4th and 5th, minor 6th and 7th. So we are looking distance between the notes and scale degree to determine the name of the interval. In a C major scale the interval from C to E is a major 3rd and a distance of two whole steps. In a C minor scale the interval from C to Eb is a minor 3rd. The distance from C to Eb is one and a half whole steps. That is one difference in how a major scale and a minor scale is constructed. This also plays into how chords are constructed.

Get a basic theory book and read up on scale construction and it will cover the whole scale not just the 3rd like I did. Learning basic theory needs to be learned in the right sequence otherwise it can get confusing.

Opps forgot your last question. In general when you hear musicians talk intervals if they don't say minor or flat they mean the major or perfect interval.