Notating Harmonics

[EADG mx]

This is one for all of you music engravers.

I've got a question about notating harmonics (aka flageolet tones) on stringed instruments. I'll use the bass for the purposes of this example.




Using the open G string as the fundamental or 1st harmonic (m.1).

If I want to notate the 2nd harmonic (1/2 the string), I could notate where it is played, but use a diamond notehead or symbol above the note to specify that it's a harmonic (m.2).

That's simple enough, but the higher harmonics begin to cause problems. Specifically the 3rd harmonic (1/3 the string) could be played at 7th fret or the 19th fret (m.3)

The 5th harmonic (1/5 the string) causes another set of problems. First of all this harmonic is not located directly above a fret. Secondly, if I notate the 5th harmonic as seen in m.4, this could be interpreted as "9th fret D string" where the harmonic there is a different pitch altogether.

This becomes even tougher on an upright because there are no frets as reference points.

Essentially I need a method of noting harmonics that clearly delineates the string, the position, and the overtone. What would you recommend?

[onlyclave]

Just notate the pitch that you want to sound. The operator is responsible for finding that harmonic on the instrument.

[JehuJava]

Operator...

...I digress...

[EADG mx]

Originally Posted by onlyclave

Just notate the pitch that you want to sound. The operator is responsible for finding that harmonic on the instrument.

How would you do it? Say for the 3rd harmonic (1/3 the string).

- 5 ledger lines above the staff or other?
- Do you account for the octave transposition of the bass?
- Regular note, diamond notehead, diamond above the note, etc?


I've seen some instances where people write the note at that fret and the harmonic that sounds there, but that doesn't work for harmonics that aren't directly above frets (and on the upright, that means all of them).

[TheBasicBassist]

Originally Posted by onlyclave

Just notate the pitch that you want to sound. The operator is responsible for finding that harmonic on the instrument.

+100

/thread

[TheBasicBassist]

Originally Posted by EADG mx

How would you do it? Say for the 3rd harmonic (1/3 the string).

- 5 ledger lines above the staff or other?
- Do you account for the octave transposition of the bass?
- Regular note, diamond notehead, diamond above the note, etc?


I've seen some instances where people write the note at that fret and the harmonic that sounds there, but that doesn't work for harmonics that aren't directly above frets (and on the upright, that means all of them).

place the diamond note heads of the harmonics within the staff
it jaco's book a portrait of tracy the symbols '8va' and '15ma' are used to delineate harmonics. that seems easiest to me personally.

that seems the easiest method to me..

[EADG mx]

Originally Posted by TheBasicBassist

place the diamond note heads of the harmonics within the staff
it jaco's book a portrait of tracy the symbols '8va' and '15ma' are used to delineate harmonics. that seems easiest to me personally.

that seems the easiest method to me..

Accounting for the octave transposition or ignoring it?

Could you post a few measures perhaps (if the rules allow it)?


Also if anyone else can post any scores or recommendations of pieces with harmonics on the bass, I'd be interested in seeing them. Thanks.

[HaVIC5]

Originally Posted by onlyclave

Just notate the pitch that you want to sound. The operator is responsible for finding that harmonic on the instrument.

Notating at pitch has its advantages of course, not the least of which including it being easier for the composer/score reader/conductor. However, it definitely has some disadvantages. Performing harmonics usually is considered an auxiliary technique, and, save for the basic natural harmonics, nobody is going to have an encyclopedic knowledge of where the chromatic scale up in the higher octaves can be played in terms of artificial harmonics. It is often far easier (for bowed stringed instruments anyway) to read and understand the notation associated with where to finger, and where to produce the node versus what note comes out from that combination.

What it comes down to is...what are you notating for? The player or the conductor?

[onlyclave]

Originally Posted by EADG mx

Accounting for the octave transposition or ignoring it?

Could you post a few measures perhaps (if the rules allow it)?


Also if anyone else can post any scores or recommendations of pieces with harmonics on the bass, I'd be interested in seeing them. Thanks.

You still account for the octave transposition because the instrument is still transposing. Use diamond notes on ledger lines and 8va or 15va to indicate the pitch you want to sound.

[EADG mx]

Originally Posted by HaVIC5

Notating at pitch has its advantages of course, not the least of which including it being easier for the composer/score reader/conductor. However, it definitely has some disadvantages. Performing harmonics usually is considered an auxiliary technique, and, save for the basic natural harmonics, nobody is going to have an encyclopedic knowledge of where the chromatic scale up in the higher octaves can be played in terms of artificial harmonics. It is often far easier (for bowed stringed instruments anyway) to read and understand the notation associated with where to finger, and where to produce the node versus what note comes out from that combination.

What it comes down to is...what are you notating for? The player or the conductor?

Well when you put it that way, ideally I'd like a way that works for anyone. Like you said, notating at pitch works because the conductor just needs to see a visual of the pitch - but it doesn't do much for the performer who needs to know where exactly to play to make those pitches sound. In a sight-reading situation, the performer won't have time to stop and figure it out.

How would personally notate a harmonic for an upright or a violin?

[HaVIC5]

Originally Posted by EADG mx

Well when you put it that way, ideally I'd like a way that works for anyone. Like you said, notating at pitch works because the conductor just needs to see a visual of the pitch - but it doesn't do much for the performer who needs to know where exactly to play to make those pitches sound. In a sight-reading situation, the performer won't have time to stop and figure it out.

How would personally notate a harmonic for an upright or a violin?

I typically notate the physical motion required to play the note - so for 1/4 harmonic I notate a C (and then might write "sul G", which solves the problem you had about the 5th harmonic discrepencies) If I want a C played as an artificial harmonic on the E string of a violin, I'd notate an Ab, then write a diamond notehead on C above that. In the limited experience I've had writing harmonic effects for strings, I've had no problems with this sort of thing.

[EADG mx]

Originally Posted by HaVIC5

I typically notate the physical motion required to play the note - so for 1/4 harmonic I notate a C (and then might write "sul G", which solves the problem you had about the 5th harmonic discrepencies)

sul G meaning ?

Originally Posted by HaVIC5

If I want a C played as an artificial harmonic on the E string of a violin, I'd notate an Ab, then write a diamond notehead on C above that. In the limited experience I've had writing harmonic effects for strings, I've had no problems with this sort of thing.

At pitch, or with octave signs?

[casanova2416]

the best solution that I've seen is where you notate the open string normally with a diamond notehead at the position of the harmonic above. The sounded note was written in parenthesis after, with the instructions "actual sound" written above it. Seems to include all the information you could want...

[EADG mx]

Originally Posted by casanova2416

the best solution that I've seen is where you notate the open string normally with a diamond notehead at the position of the harmonic above. The sounded note was written in parenthesis after, with the instructions "actual sound" written above it. Seems to include all the information you could want...

I just found this, which is similar to what you described:




Which works fine as is, but in the context of a sequence of harmonics might be difficult to read.

[onlyclave]

Originally Posted by EADG mx

sul G meaning ?

"On the G string"

[HaVIC5]

Originally Posted by EADG mx

sul G meaning ?



At pitch, or with octave signs?

Where you physically play C on the instrument, meaning 8th "fret" on e string. The note, btw, would sound two octaves above the C above the treble staff on a violin. Really, really high.

I just found this, which is similar to what you described:

This is what I'm describing. It really isn't that hard to read in a sequence - its actually far harder to read sounding pitched harmonics unless you have that very intimate knowledge with all chromatic pitches in those octaves played on harmonics.

[EADG mx]

Well it seems like there's no shortage of options now. I will try notating just the sounding pitch, add then try adding the physical motion and see if that makes it easier or harder to read.

So now getting totally off-bass, would this be a similar deal on say, a woodwind or a harp?

[EADG mx]

Originally Posted by EADG mx

So now getting totally off-bass, would this be a similar deal on say, a woodwind or a harp?

And while we're here, any suggestions on how to do string or embouchure bends in notation?

[onlyclave]

Originally Posted by EADG mx

And while we're here, any suggestions on how to do string or embouchure bends in notation?

I think it depends on what the target of the bend is. If you are specifically bending up a whole step, I would write a grace note with a swoopy looking slur from the beginning to ending pitch. If you want to pick a pitch and just bend up an undefined amount up or down, just use a swoopy looking slur in the direction you want the pitch to go.

[EADG mx]

Originally Posted by onlyclave

I think it depends on what the target of the bend is. If you are specifically bending up a whole step, I would write a grace note with a swoopy looking slur from the beginning to ending pitch. If you want to pick a pitch and just bend up an undefined amount up or down, just use a swoopy looking slur in the direction you want the pitch to go.

Something like either of these?