notation for reggae riff

[chondro776]

Hi all. I am trying to up my reading/writing game so I am transcribing all of my bands music onto lead sheets.
(I highly recommend this for others, even though we play fairly simple rock stuff, it has been very illuminating).

My question is simple (I hope):

You know the 'typical dancehall reggae riddim'?
Da Da da Da Da da

The first and fourth notes sound to me like they are right on the one and three. However, the other 4 notes seem to not be on an 8th upbeat, or a downbeat.

How do you notate this rythmically? I am fine with notating pitch, key sigs, etc. But rythyms give me problems if they aren't straight 8's, 16's, etc.

I know this is probably a very dumb/simple question but I want to make sure I am getting it right.

Thanks in advance.

[Blake Bass]

That's kind of tough to answer without hearing the actual rhythm. But maybe it is a triplet pattern?

[chondro776]

Lol...the ubiquitous dance hall part...you have heard it a million times no doubt.

I will see if I can attach a clip after work.

The bass line for Schwinger by Seeed is somewhat similar.

[bass12]

Be careful with the term "dancehall", as it originally referred to much of the reggae coming out in the late 1970s and early 1980s! I do know what drum pattern you are referring to, however, so here you go: your first beat consists of a dotted eighth note tied to a sixteenth note (both bass drum hits); the second beat begins with an eighth note rest, followed by an eighth note (snare); the second half of the bar repeats the first half (dotted eighth tied to a sixteenth in beat three, etc.). Hope that helps!

[Floridabwoy]

Dancehall = Elephant man, Vybes Cartell, Movado etc. NOT music from the 70's and 80's. That was roots rock, lovers rock, Dub.

To transcribe your riddims you are prolly going to need to actually write the music. so

-------0---------0
0--0------0--0---
------------------
------------------

is going to be tough because the complexity of the off beats and such. You need to use a real time signature w. rests and quarter notes.

[kesslari]

The riddim you want is the first half of the Clave -
The strong beats are on 1, the "and" of 2, and 4
1 and 2 and 3 and 4 and

[chondro776]

You guys/gals rock.
That is exactly what I was looking for.

I won't pretend to have an in depth understanding of the various Reggae subgenres. I just know what makes my head nod.

Big thanks!

[bass12]

Originally Posted by Floridabwoy

Dancehall = Elephant man, Vybes Cartell, Movado etc. NOT music from the 70's and 80's. That was roots rock, lovers rock, Dub.

To transcribe your riddims you are prolly going to need to actually write the music. so

-------0---------0
0--0------0--0---
------------------
------------------

is going to be tough because the complexity of the off beats and such. You need to use a real time signature w. rests and quarter notes.

Sorry, man, but you need to bone up on your reggae history. Original dancehall = the productions of Henry "Junjo" Lawes, the Hookim brothers and Prince Jammy, to name but a few. Artists such as Barrington Levy, Cocoa Tea, Michigan & Smiley, and Yellowman were all part of the original dancehall era. I can provide you with some references if you need them.

[Hoover]

Originally Posted by kesslari

The riddim you want is the first half of the Clave -
The strong beats are on 1, the "and" of 2, and 4
1 and 2 and 3 and 4 and

I don't profess to be intimately familiar with a huge variety of the genre, but from my experience playing reggae and reggae-influenced music when I was a session musician, I found that the rhythmic placement that made the artists happiest was when I loosely split the difference between the dotted-quarter/dotted-quarter/quarter rhythm cited above by keslari, and a legit half-note triplet.

(Actually, more often than not the figure was thought of in double time, so I was loosely splitting the difference between a dotted-eighth/dotted-eighth/eighth clave and a quarter-note triplet...but the relationship is the same.)

iow, it very definitely wasn't a strict triplet nor a strict dotted/dotted/un-dotted rhythm, but rather it was a loose, loping, almost sloppy (but consistent in its almost-ness) hybrid that approximated both without ever explicitly hitting either.

That's what they were looking for. Lord knows how I'd go about notating that for someone else though. Perhaps either of those rhythms with the instruction "molto gangissimo"

[Floridabwoy]

Originally Posted by bass12

Sorry, man, but you need to bone up on your reggae history. Original dancehall = the productions of Henry "Junjo" Lawes, the Hookim brothers and Prince Jammy, to name but a few. Artists such as Barrington Levy, Cocoa Tea, Michigan & Smiley, and Yellowman were all part of the original dancehall era. I can provide you with some references if you need them.

Nope... I gentlemenly disagree. Prince Jammy is the definition of dub, along with Scratch, King Tubby, etc. The Hookim brothers invented the Rockerz sound, with the band the Revolutionaries. A la Sly & Robbie. My good buddy is married into the Hookim Family. I would say that BL, CT, and Yelloman are dancehall.

I mean if you say that they played the music in the dancehall, then yeah... But "Dancehall" per se came to be with the Sleng Teng riddim made on the Casio MT40 in 1985. Maybe slightly before.

[bass12]

Originally Posted by Floridabwoy

Nope... I gentlemenly disagree. Prince Jammy is the definition of dub, along with Scratch, King Tubby, etc. The Hookim brothers invented the Rockerz sound, with the band the Revolutionaries. A la Sly & Robbie. My good buddy is married into the Hookim Family. I would say that BL, CT, and Yelloman are dancehall.

I mean if you say that they played the music in the dancehall, then yeah... But "Dancehall" per se came to be with the Sleng Teng riddim made on the Casio MT40 in 1985. Maybe slightly before.

I have no doubt that you are very knowledgeable when it comes to reggae, but I still have to disagree with you. According to renowned reggae historian Steve Barrow (you're probably familiar with his label, Blood & Fire Records) and co-author Peter Dalton:

"All Jamaican popular music, from R&B of the late 1950s to today's ragga, has been directed at the dancehall. As a more generic term, however, 'dancehall' has a more particular sense, which became widely used after the death of Bob Marley in 1981 and the decline in the volume of Rasta-inspired roots records. Some commentators have made a direct link between Marley's death and the rise of what was soon tagged 'dancehall', but even a cursory listen to what was being produced in Kingston studios of the late 1970s shows this to be false." (Barrow and Dalton, 2004: 247).

"Most of the ingredients for the dancehall phase were in place before the end of the 1970s: for example, the dropping of horns on many sessions... and the rise of the Roots Radics..." (Barrow & Dalton, 2004: 249).

Both of those excerpts are from The Rough Guide To Reggae, 3rd Edition. From the liner notes of "Greensleeves 12" Rulers: Henry 'Junjo' Lawes" (in regard to Barrington Levy's releases on Lawes' Volcano label and the Greensleeves label in the early 1980s):

"his releases... epitomised the nascent dancehall style".

From the liner notes of "The Channel One Story" on VP records"

"Alongside ghetto promoter Henry 'Junjo' Lawes Channel One quickly became one of the principal architects of the new dancehall sound producing many of the [b]genre's[b] [my bold type] most enduring anthems with artists old and new such as, Don Carlos, Barry Brown, Welton Irie, Ringo, Yellowman, Lone Ranger, Frankie Paul..."

"In the first years of the new decade [the 1980s] Channel One developed its own instantly identifiable version of dancehall style..."

Not that it's always the most reliable of sources, but the Wikipedia entry on dancehall supports my position as well.