Ok, so how do you keep other musicians

[Rocks]

From my experience most drummers that have these issues can't be fixed. They have already been doing this wrong for so long that its too hard (or they are unwilling to admit they have a problem) I've met and jammed with many drummers that only could play at two speeds, fast and faster. I'm 49 and have had a bass in my hands since I was 17 and I still have a metronome sitting on my practice amp at home. Even as a bass player it seems harder to play slow then it is to play fast. I like to take some of my favorite bass lines and play them at about half speed and find it takes more effort to play them slow then it does fast. Plus as a bass player using a metronome it forces me to listen more carefully to the beat and makes my ear listen more closely when playing with a drummer.

The way I see it is if you can't talk someone into using a metronome then there is no way you are going to get them to fix the problem, move on and find a new drummer. Are you really a musician if you can't play with a metronome?

[Will Kelly]

Azureblue:

Not saying this is not happening, but YOU must be so rock solid that they have no option but to play with YOU.

Your time must be without question and you must not deviate no matter what. Do that while looking right at them and saying something like : "the TIME is HERE mother$##@!@".

Sometimes I will pull a drummer aside and pretend to joke with him and say something like "You need to get more into me." : )

[alembicguy]

I would question first off if the person who is playing out of time can hear what everyone else is doing.
Had trouble with a drummer who's timing was off and a pair of in ear monitors solved everything.
If someones timing is off and they can't hear it and correct it then I choose not to play with them.
Just my 2 cents.

[THORRR]

As a bass player, I'm hyper-sensitive to tempo changes and because the bass + drums are what anchors a band's tempo, they have to play together and with precision. I've got a clock in my head and play in time regardless of what wandering the other players are doing. It gives them an anchor to come back to.

If a song is too slow or too fast and the whole band speeds up or slows down, that's different. I still anchor the change.

That being said, a drummer who can't keep tempo is a drummer who can't do his job, and eventually needs to be replaced with one who can. In my experience, it's not curable without an incredibly intense effort by a drummer and I've never witnessed one do it successfully. It's a bad habit that they just can't seem to break. they just don't have that mental "clock" in their head.

It's torture to play with a guy who can't keep time, especially for the bass player. The rest of the band feels the tension of the struggle and it hurts the whole group.

My suggestion is to do what it takes to find and recruit a new drummer. Your band will sound 10 times better immediately and you'll notice the smiles on the other player's faces when you're playing with the new guy. Been there. Believe me.

[johnboy65]

I try to counteract by playing waaay on the back of the beat. If anyone is listening they SHOULD feel it and follow. Otherwise, I just bring it up after the song is over. This is of course at practice; gigs I'll just make a face like I'm holding a poo in and turn to the drummer to say slow down.
Communication is always the key, being a pecker to band members is almost always the wrong answer. Sell it as what will benefit the song.

[alembicguy]

Originally Posted by johnboy65

Communication is always the key, being a pecker to band members is almost always the wrong answer. Sell it as what will benefit the song.

Sometimes being a pecker is the only solution.

[johnboy65]

Originally Posted by alembicguy

Sometimes being a pecker is the only solution.

Trust me I've been rude to band members!

I actually told a drummer at church that if he played a fill as stupid as the one he just played that I was going to punch him in the face. I don't play at that church anymore!

It taught me that inside a band (church or bar band) attacking someone will maybe fix it for a short time, but rarely long term. Even worse if someone is watching tempo solely to avoid getting b!tched at, they can't focus on making the songs flow and groove; which is what is really important within a song.

[Thunderthumbs73]

Also, know who to keep and when to cut your losses by either not keeping the musician, or leaving, yourself. Sometimes, people are worth the effort. Sometimes not.

[Gaetano Paul]

Originally Posted by johnboy65

Trust me I've been rude to band members!

I actually told a drummer at church that if he played a fill as stupid as the one he just played that I was going to punch him in the face. I don't play at that church anymore!

It taught me that inside a band (church or bar band) attacking someone will maybe fix it for a short time, but rarely long term. Even worse if someone is watching tempo solely to avoid getting b!tched at, they can't focus on making the songs flow and groove; which is what is really important within a song.

ROTFLMAO

[dvh]

Originally Posted by Rocks

From my experience most drummers that have these issues can't be fixed.

Originally Posted by THORRR

That being said, a drummer who can't keep tempo is a drummer who can't do his job, and eventually needs to be replaced with one who can. In my experience, it's not curable without an incredibly intense effort by a drummer and I've never witnessed one do it successfully. It's a bad habit that they just can't seem to break. they just don't have that mental "clock" in their head.

This is my experience too and, sadly, one of my projects is in this dilemma. Great guy, decent drummer, but too often tends to speed up and hit too hard. We've talked about it. He knows, but the issue persists...

[alembicguy]

Originally Posted by johnboy65

Trust me I've been rude to band members!

I actually told a drummer at church that if he played a fill as stupid as the one he just played that I was going to punch him in the face. I don't play at that church anymore!

It taught me that inside a band (church or bar band) attacking someone will maybe fix it for a short time, but rarely long term. Even worse if someone is watching tempo solely to avoid getting b!tched at, they can't focus on making the songs flow and groove; which is what is really important within a song.

Yes but there is also a time and place and the word pecker or threatening to punch someone in the face at church is mistake. Doesn't matter who's timing sucks at that point.

[2-Sticks]

Originally Posted by dvh

This is my experience too and, sadly, one of my projects is in this dilemma. Great guy, decent drummer, but too often tends to speed up and hit too hard. We've talked about it. He knows, but the issue persists...

I played with a couple of drummers that had this same problem. I found the reason they were speeding up was because they were playing harder, and couldn't hear the rest of the band as clearly because of it.

My solution was the same for each of them...I set up a second 8*10 right behind them, set at minimal volume. As they hit harder and sped up, I cranked up the volume on that cab. My power amp at the time was 650 watts rms / channel....They all got the point really quick, or left just as quickly.

It might not have been the most diplomatic way of doing things, but it solved my problems!

[jallenbass]

Originally Posted by 2-Sticks

I played with a couple of drummers that had this same problem. I found the reason they were speeding up was because they were playing harder, and couldn't hear the rest of the band as clearly because of it.

Anyone who would play so loudly as to not hear anyone else is no musician. That's just self-gratifying wankification.

[2-Sticks]

Originally Posted by jallenbass

Anyone who would play so loudly as to not hear anyone else is no musician. That's just self-gratifying wankification.

I totaly agree, and somtimes the only way to get through to a wanker is to out wank them.

[KingRazor]

What do you do if your drummer normally has good timing but occasionally speeds up without knowing it, what kind of signal can you give to them to slow down?

The problem with playing at the same tempo when the drums speed up is that you sound off, even if it's the drums that are actually off.

[Ro(c)kBass]

In case the drummer normally has good timing but occasionally speeds up I use eye-contact and body gestures to keep synchronized with him. You can see some examples of how we do it in the video I posted to my friend’s blog: How To Play With The Band | Free Drum Education - Online Learning Community For Drummers (time references are noted in the lesson text – bullet No 3.).
If a band member always loses his timing in the same part of song I talk to him about it (make him listen), so he remembers it the next time we play the song.

[Nev375]

I just make sure the drummer and I are together. No matter what.

Critiscising or trying to control or fix other musicians is not my job.

[KingRazor]

I made that post so long ago I forgot I made it, lol.

[Gaetano Paul]

Yeah this is an ancient thread, but still a very good one.