Open G and 5th fret on D...

TJ55 · #1 03-10-2011, 07:23 PM

don't sound the same to me, although the tuner says they are on point. Problem w/ my hearing, my tuner, my bass, all of the above? True beginner here and curious.

MalcolmAmos · #2 03-10-2011, 07:53 PM

I had to go try it myself. I think what you have stumbled onto is the difference in an open note and a fretted note. Same note, but they do sound a little different.

I've heard people talking about this. First time I've actually experienced it myself.

Bread Knife · #3 03-10-2011, 08:04 PM

Every note on your bass will sound a bit different depending on which string it is played on. As another example, you could play an E at the 12th fret on the E string, the 7th fret of the A string, or the 2nd fret of the D string. Which you choose sometimes depends on what area of the neck you're already in - no need to jump up to the 12th fret if all the other notes in the current passage are around the 5th fret or so. However, tone can be a consideration as well when choosing how to play a particular note. I am more likely to play the 2nd fret E if I am going for a brighter tone versus the slightly bassier sound that comes from playing at the 7th fret. 12th fret sounds awful and is usually out of the question.

The difference between the same note in different spots happens to be exaggerated when one of the spots is an open string. This is not limited to the G you noticed. Many players tend to avoid playing open strings because they tend to sound a bit different.

Rockingbird · #4 03-10-2011, 08:09 PM

Do you mean they sound slightly out of tune, or is it a tone difference? If its a tone difference, thats normal. An open string sounds different than a fretted one. If they're slightly out of tune, you need to set the intonation.

TJ55 · #5 03-10-2011, 08:35 PM

Thanks for the response Malcomb. Glad I could be of service and teach you something tonight.

Knife: I understand and can hear the difference in notes as far as octaves are concerned like the open E vs E on 12th fret or F on 1st fret of E and F on 3rd fret of D but this was a bit different. From my minimal understanding of the instrument the two Gs I exampled in the OP "should" be the same (Obviously barring what Malcomb pointed out). No?

Bird: Tune sounds fine between the two. Even when played at the same time I don't hear the "out of tune wobble" sound.

Thanks for helping me out guys. Thought I might be losing it or something.

Chrisk-K · #6 03-10-2011, 08:36 PM

The OP probably meant "out of tune". I hear that on all my basses. Although my tuners indicate the G at the 5th fret on the D string is absolutely in tune, it sounds slightly out of tune.

HaVIC5 · #7 03-10-2011, 08:59 PM

The only thing different between the two of them should be a timbral difference, or what people might call a "tonal" difference. The two tones should sound identical in pitch, but differ subtly in "tone" or "timbre." However, there is the case where they might be different in pitch ever so slightly, and this is where crappy tuners MAY (but not likely) tell you they are perfectly in tune when they are in fact not in tune. Any kind of tuner worth it's value will in fact be able to tell the difference in pitch far better than any human being could ever possibly hear (the maximum a human being can hear with a lot of training is around 2-3 cents (unit of dividing pitch) in difference, some tuners go to 1/10th of a cent).

If you suspect that it's out of tune, play both pitches at once. If you hear a "wobble" in the sound, then the two strings are out of tune. This is the frequency caused by the two pitches interacting with each other and conflicting. Listen carefully, because this could be hard to hear. If you can't hear that wobble, chances are that the two strings are actually in tune, and you have just been perceiving the timbral differences between the two and not a pitch difference.

Bread Knife · #8 03-11-2011, 02:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TJ55

Knife: I understand and can hear the difference in notes as far as octaves are concerned like the open E vs E on 12th fret or F on 1st fret of E and F on 3rd fret of D but this was a bit different. From my minimal understanding of the instrument the two Gs I exampled in the OP "should" be the same (Obviously barring what Malcomb pointed out). No?

Perhaps I should have been more clear, but in the example I gave all of the notes are E in the same octave, or in other words the exact same pitch. Just like your open/fretted G. Try playing them where I indicated and you will see that they are not octaves. Playing the notes will also illustrate my point better.

Ed Friedland discusses this in a video here: YouTube - BassGuitarMag's Channel

Hopefully he can explain better than me.

slybass3000 · #9 03-11-2011, 04:11 AM

What kind of tuner are you using?

Sometimes the display is not very good at giving all the infos like on the Boss TU-2 it is hard to see if you have sharped note like G# instead of G.

TJ55 · #10 03-11-2011, 04:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bread Knife

Perhaps I should have been more clear, but in the example I gave all of the notes are E in the same octave, or in other words the exact same pitch. Just like your open/fretted G. Try playing them where I indicated and you will see that they are not octaves. Playing the notes will also illustrate my point better.

Ed Friedland discusses this in a video here: YouTube - BassGuitarMag's Channel

Hopefully he can explain better than me.

Re-reading your first post (admittidly paying better attention / visualizing the fretboard) I can now see that all those notes should be the same pitch. Nontheless, I'll give it try when I get off work. Thanks for the link too.

Sly: Korg tuner. Can't recall model specifics off hand. Has a digital "needle" and "red-green-red" LCD for sharp-in tune-flat.

mambo4 · #11 03-11-2011, 03:02 PM

I agree with Havic5 that it's likely a difference in timbre.
Open strings have more overtones than fretted notes.
Also, I think the 5th fret is a common location for dead spots

There is a slight possibility that what you are hearing is a result of Just Intonation. but the difference between a pure G (open) and an a Just intoned G (fretted) is usually lost to most people's ear, so it's unlikely.

slybass3000 · #12 03-11-2011, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TJ55

Sly: Korg tuner. Can't recall model specifics off hand. Has a digital "needle" and "red-green-red" LCD for sharp-in tune-flat.

Is it chromatic or only for open strings? Because like I said, if it is set to chromatic and your are off by semi-tone, some tuners don't display well the name of the notes. I don't know if this is what is happening to you.

Chrisk-K · #13 03-11-2011, 10:08 PM

Quote:

What kind of tuner are you using?

Boss TU-2 & Korg Pitchblack.