Opinions on Switching Approach

[rydin4lifebass]

I've been taking lessons for about two years and went through the "Progressive Bass" book while learning songs and a little bit of theory. Recently, my lessons turned to more theory and a better understanding of chords, modes, and a better overall understanding of other areas. In learning songs, I've missed simple things like memorizing the notes on the fretboard and learning different finger positions. I want to direct my lessons towards something that will help me understand more and become a better player. Mainly, in my personal practice time I want to:
1) Memorize the notes on the fretboard
2) Know the 7 patterns (from the bass grimoire)
3) Know that major scales and which notes are in each

In my practice time with my instructor, I want to learn more about being able to play along with other musicians in jam sessions and develop being able to take a song, find what key its in, what chords are used, and then try to decipher what bassline is used, or one that could be used. I downloaded many sample backing tracks of just drums and guitars and my instructor suggested that I start with these and that we work through them to find common progressions and a variety of rhythms.
I'm hoping that this, with the 3 things mentioned above, will help me develop more musical knowledge and get me out of only knowing "this song in this key" and help me be more versatile.

Does that sound like a reasonable plan of attack, or am I missing something?

[251]

I strongly encourage you to find groups to play in or ensemble lessons, as often as you can manage. Backing tracks, play-a-long CD's, Band in a Box are predictable. Good practice tools, not necessarily easy, but there are no surprises. Real live musicians are anything but predictable. Everything is academic once you are making music with others in front of an audience, moment, to moment, to moment ...

[rydin4lifebass]

There is a restaurant close to me that does a country jam session every Monday but I wouldn't even know where to start or what to play, so I was hoping the backing tracks would at least give me some guidance..I feel like I have no real goal, no idea what I should actually be working towards.

[mambo4]

read the Pac Man's sure-fire-scale-practice-method sticky thread.

followed correctly, it will easily achieve your goals.

[251]

Originally Posted by rydin4lifebass

There is a restaurant close to me that does a country jam session every Monday but I wouldn't even know where to start or what to play, so I was hoping the backing tracks would at least give me some guidance..I feel like I have no real goal, no idea what I should actually be working towards.

Learning to play a variety of music styles to be able to play with others seems like a reasonable goal. To do that you will learn many different techniques. Don't wait to learn all the techniques you need before playing music. After 2 years of lessons, you know enough to get started providing the bottom end for a band. FWIW, learning your role, with a bass, in a band is a required technique.

Good luck & be prepared to play badly to learn how to advance. 8-)

[rydin4lifebass]

Thanks guys I guess I'm nervous about playing badly in front of others that's all part of getting a better.


If iunderstand pacman's post correctly he's playing a c major scale starting on different notes and playing through the scale. Doing this is playing each mode which teaches the different patterns snd where the notes are..is that what u mean?

[MalcolmAmos]

Originally Posted by rydin4lifebass

There is a restaurant close to me that does a country jam session every Monday but I wouldn't even know where to start or what to play, so I was hoping the backing tracks would at least give me some guidance..I feel like I have no real goal, no idea what I should actually be working towards.

Grab dinner at the restaurant and listen/watch what is being done. No need to take your bass in the first time, I'd have it in the car just in case it looks like you might fit in.

Country jamming is dirt simple. Normally a I IV V7 chord progression will be used and all you need do is play a root five over each chord. Root on 1 and 3.

Watch the rhythm guitar and change chords when he does. I bet it goes something like this; Someone will call a song. OK let's do Kiss ole Kate in G. The person that called the song will lead off singing and accompanying his vocals playing chords. Notice how the lead is passed, some time the person calling the song will play the entire song and then someone else will bring out another song. Some time the person calling the song will sing a couple of verses and pass the lead to someone else who will sing a couple more verses - or play a verse and chorus of the melody. When the song is passed all around the circle - then another song is brought up.

Go see what happens. I bet you will be able to hold your own and fit in. Jamming is safe. I've never had someone get upset with a newbie as long as the newbie is trying.

Go have fun.

[rydin4lifebass]

I guess what concerns me is that if someone does yell out songs like you mentioned and I've never heard of them..how what I know the rhythm or when to switch chords........ if it was folsom prison blues or merle haggard or something I was familiar with I could see it but if I never heard the song before how would I know?

[MalcolmAmos]

Originally Posted by rydin4lifebass

I guess what concerns me is that if someone does yell out songs like you mentioned and I've never heard of them..how what I know the rhythm or when to switch chords........ if it was folsom prison blues or merle haggard or something I was familiar with I could see it but if I never heard the song before how would I know?

If you have never heard the song then you can sit that one out, or you can assume it will be in the key called out - The key is normally called out. G will use the G, C and D7 chords, if you do not know that then you are not ready for prime time.

Go see what is happening, then come back and ask questions. It's not all that complicated, listen and take notes, then do come back here and ask specific questions.

Good luck.

[rydin4lifebass]

Chordz and their location I think id be ok eith..more so rythm on that one. In general..does my original post sound like a good point to start learning more to become oversll "better" at improving my ability to play slong sit different styles?

[timonvh]

Bass grimoire? That's a new one to me.
Why don't you just turn on your radio, tune up your bass, turn up the bass on your radio to hear what the bass player is doing and try to play along?
Sorry if I sound grumpy (I probably am).
Timon

[MalcolmAmos]

1) Memorize the notes on the fret1board
2) Know the 7 patterns (from the bass grimoire)
3) Know that major scales and which notes are in each[/quote]

Yes those would help.

[GeoffT]

Have to agree with Malcolm, go and check it out, leave your bass at home. Take notes about what songs get played and work on a few. The only way to get better at any style of music is to listen to it and practice it, a lot, no real shortcuts. Study chord tones, songs are generally described by chord progressions, if you know your chord tones you should be able to follow along and then you just need to apply the genre specific rhythms/grooves. Keep things simple at first, better to play a simple groove and hold it down solidly then to try and get fancy and lose the groove. When you get more comfortable, start taking a few more chances.

Here is a great link and approach for learning to apply chord tones to create a bass line when given the chord progression: Creating bass lines and grooves | Scott's Bass Lessons
You can apply these ideas to any style based on knowing the progression of the song. Learning the chord tones themselves and getting familiar with them isn't that difficult, the trick is to be able to apply it in a creative way on the fly like Scott does in the videos.

[rydin4lifebass]

Originally Posted by timonvh

Bass grimoire? That's a new one to me.
Why don't you just turn on your radio, tune up your bass, turn up the bass on your radio to hear what the bass player is doing and try to play along?
Sorry if I sound grumpy (I probably am).
Timon

Not to sound like a dumbass, but if I hear a song on the radio, I think 1)what key is it in, 2) what is the progression, 3) what are my chords, and 4) what is the rhythm...by the time I figure that out, the songs over...

[GeoffT]

Originally Posted by rydin4lifebass

Not to sound like a dumbass, but if I hear a song on the radio, I think 1)what key is it in, 2) what is the progression, 3) what are my chords, and 4) what is the rhythm...by the time I figure that out, the songs over...

Just try it, it can seem difficult at first and you probably won't be good at it the first time you do it but don't let that discourage you, the only way to get better at it is by doing it. You will be surprised with your progress and will realize that it isn't as difficult as it might sound.

Don't think about any of those things, at first just try to follow the root motion of the chord changes and copying the rhythms. Once you can do that then try to fill in the blanks and figure out how all those other things fit together. It doesn't have to be the radio, you can pick 5 or 10 songs you like and put them in a random playlist, that might help with gaining some confidence with it and give you some positive feedback. Just try to figure out a little more of each song each time, it will get easier the more you do it. If you get frustrated, take a break and try again tomorrow.

[MalcolmAmos]

Originally Posted by rydin4lifebass

Not to sound like a dumbass, but if I hear a song on the radio, I think 1)what key is it in, 2) what is the progression, 3) what are my chords, and 4) what is the rhythm...by the time I figure that out, the songs over...

1. OK how? Listen and run your G string one fret at a time, when what is happeing on the song and what you are doing come in sync you've found the tonal center, thus the key - just look down and see what fret (note) that happen on - that's your key. The more you do this the faster you will be able to do it. Your music that you will be using probably will be in one of 5 keys. My stuff is going to be in C, G, D, A and perhaps F. It's not going to be hard.

2. Once you have your key the progression (order of the chords) is really predicitable. Jazz is ii-V7-I then Country, pop, Rock revolves around I-IV-V7-I. Find some fake chord sheet music on your music and see what the popular progression is. Assume that is what will be used. Make some cheat sheets. Yes it would be nice to be exact, however, close works.

3. What are the chords. See number 2. Cheat sheet on the keys you normally run into.

4. What is the rhythm? Let the drums or the vocalist give you the rhythm. Sing the song under your breath - one note (beat) per lyric word. Hap-py gets two beats.

How? To get all that down before the music goes off and leaves you you have to listen to a bunch of songs. Take it one step at a time it'll come

Have fun.

Not at home spell check is NA...........

[bigthor]

Originally Posted by timonvh

Bass grimoire? That's a new one to me.
Why don't you just turn on your radio, tune up your bass, turn up the bass on your radio to hear what the bass player is doing and try to play along?
Sorry if I sound grumpy (I probably am).
Timon

Yep, that works for me. That will teach you to play "Music" instead of Notes. All the lessons are good and keep it up. My advice is to find some guys and start a band. Play every night, learn songs and find out what playing music really is. Do your "Music" work before going anywhere near a jam-night.

[251]

Originally Posted by rydin4lifebass

Thanks guys I guess I'm nervous about playing badly in front of others that's all part of getting a better.


If iunderstand pacman's post correctly he's playing a c major scale starting on different notes and playing through the scale. Doing this is playing each mode which teaches the different patterns snd where the notes are..is that what u mean?

You understood both ideas, correctly.

[rydin4lifebass]

Thanks for all the input guys...and 251..thanks for confirming the modes/scales practice. I'm using the grimoire and trying to do the same thing, will keep that up!

[Snarf]

Originally Posted by rydin4lifebass

I've been taking lessons for about two years and went through the "Progressive Bass" book while learning songs and a little bit of theory. Recently, my lessons turned to more theory and a better understanding of chords, modes, and a better overall understanding of other areas. In learning songs, I've missed simple things like memorizing the notes on the fretboard and learning different finger positions. I want to direct my lessons towards something that will help me understand more and become a better player. Mainly, in my personal practice time I want to:
1) Memorize the notes on the fretboard
2) Know the 7 patterns (from the bass grimoire)
3) Know that major scales and which notes are in each

In my practice time with my instructor, I want to learn more about being able to play along with other musicians in jam sessions and develop being able to take a song, find what key its in, what chords are used, and then try to decipher what bassline is used, or one that could be used. I downloaded many sample backing tracks of just drums and guitars and my instructor suggested that I start with these and that we work through them to find common progressions and a variety of rhythms.
I'm hoping that this, with the 3 things mentioned above, will help me develop more musical knowledge and get me out of only knowing "this song in this key" and help me be more versatile.

Does that sound like a reasonable plan of attack, or am I missing something?

Yes, that's a very good start. I would work sight reading and structured ear training into that regimen as well.