Overwhelmed some days at learning....

[Popbumper]

As a newbie, I find it >very easy< to get bogged down by the myriad of resources/methods out "there". Approach any answers you have with the knowledge that I:

1) Am a trained musician (woodwinds, 40+ years)
2) Know how to read TREBLE clef
3) Can identify TREBLE keys
4) Understand musical notation/definitions/tempos

...so music is not a "NEW" experience for me. However, the bass is an entirely different beast; I am not a stringed instrument musician, I am not familiar with bass clef (those dam* "A's" look like "A's", dadgumit), and I am not a child (though my wife would disagree).

The last few months I have:
1) Messed with the Hal Leonard method book and learned basic notes - but tired of it
2) Played a LOT of tab (FUN) to get "more involved"
3) Looked through the BASS FOR DUMMIES book (holy crap, takes you way over the top with diminished, augmented, ionian, midolyxian theory theory theory)
4) Recently been doing exercises at studybass.com - find it VERY enjoyable.

Still, between the fifths, sixths, box patterns, flat sevenths, twisted-toungue scale pronunciations, roots, finger style vs. pick, active vs. passive, flats vs. wounds, and uncooperative fingers - I gotta ask - WHERE does one know a good "place to start"? Everywhere? Is "mixing it up" good, or does it just lead to this confusion I am experiencing"?

Is a TEACHER (hey, why does this old guy want to learn bass?) the next really logical premise? I need a plan....

THANK YOU....

Chris

[MalcolmAmos]

I took up the bass last year at 76. Lot of non bass musical experience. Back up and play some songs from fake chord - IMHO tabs are a dead end, OK to find out how a riff is played and things like that, but, I bet no one in the band will be passing out bass tabs for you to use - now fake chord - yes probably fake chord or lead sheets which have no bass clef. What you do with those chords is left up to you. So back up and play some of your favorite songs from fake chord using some bass lines you have put into muscle memory.

See a chord name and pull up a generic bass line in muscle memory. These will be friends:

Generic bass lines - that fall into a groove with just about any chord.
R-R-R-R
R-5-R-5
R-5-8-5

Specific bass lines.
R-3-5-X works with any major chord.
R-b3-5-X works with any minor chord.
R-b3-b5-X works with the diminished chords.
What is the X? What ever you want to make it, I use the sevens, love the neutral 6's or just add another correct 3 to round out the 4/4 time. Later let the X move you to the next chord, i.e. walking bass lines - plenty of time for that later.

Seventh bass lines.
R-3-5-7 works with maj7 chords.
R-3-5-b7 works with dominant seventh chords.
R-b3-5-b7 works with minor seventh chords.

No need to go beyond the 7ths at this stage in your playing. Roots, fives, eights and the correct 3 and 7 will be all you need.

Those few bass lines will let you play a lot of bass. Go back to the basics and then work back up to the complicated stuff in your own time frame.

See what you can do with this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4x0u...eature=related
R-R-R-R at first and when that gets easy go to R-5-R-5. Am7 = R-b3-5-b7 and will take a while. Roots first.

Have fun.

[kander]

Originally Posted by Popbumper

As a newbie, I find it >very easy< to get bogged down by the myriad of resources/methods out "there". Approach any answers you have with the knowledge that I:

1) Am a trained musician (woodwinds, 40+ years)
2) Know how to read TREBLE clef
3) Can identify TREBLE keys
4) Understand musical notation/definitions/tempos

...so music is not a "NEW" experience for me. However, the bass is an entirely different beast; I am not a stringed instrument musician, I am not familiar with bass clef (those dam* "A's" look like "A's", dadgumit), and I am not a child (though my wife would disagree).

The last few months I have:
1) Messed with the Hal Leonard method book and learned basic notes - but tired of it
2) Played a LOT of tab (FUN) to get "more involved"
3) Looked through the BASS FOR DUMMIES book (holy crap, takes you way over the top with diminished, augmented, ionian, midolyxian theory theory theory)
4) Recently been doing exercises at studybass.com - find it VERY enjoyable.

Still, between the fifths, sixths, box patterns, flat sevenths, twisted-toungue scale pronunciations, roots, finger style vs. pick, active vs. passive, flats vs. wounds, and uncooperative fingers - I gotta ask - WHERE does one know a good "place to start"? Everywhere? Is "mixing it up" good, or does it just lead to this confusion I am experiencing"?

Is a TEACHER (hey, why does this old guy want to learn bass?) the next really logical premise? I need a plan....

THANK YOU....

Chris

Check out videos on Youtube. I've been playing bass for 15 years and I always find something to improve.

[kb9wyz]

I think the best place to start is to start playing. I know that sounds stupid, but I'm a self-taught player and that worked for me. I was not new to music, like you. I found the theory a bit cumbersome at first, so I just focused on experimenting and learning new techniques. I did find that learning the scale patterns was a nice thing to do. It helped with dexterity and getting used to the neck more.

I would recommend a book, though. The Evolving Bassist by Rufus Reid. Its for jazz, but the exercises are really good. The first bunch of exercises are just open string and gradually more complex patterns. But I gotta tel ya, for as boring as they were at first, they did wonders for my string-to-string switching. Plus it eases you into reading bass clef. You can move through it at your own pace.

I hope this is useful to you.

[mambo4]

Harmony is what it's all about. 95% of what a bassist needs to do is to play a line that supports the chords. So all that theory and stuff you are learning ultimately will need to answer these questions:
1.) what is the current chord?
2.) what's the root note?
3.) what rhythm should I play?
4.) what chord tones can I use?
5.) What other tones can I use?

My advice is to apply any theory learning towards understanding how to harmonize the major scale, and learn/follow common chord progressions. Learn bass lines to songs you dig, go through it chord by chord, identifying the roots, chord tones (3rd 5th 7th), and other tones being used. You are developing a vocabulary of ideas you can play when confronted by chords of a given flavor, in a given style.

[elgecko]

I play with a drummer in his 60s that just started bass lessons.

[Big Brother]

I essentially started about 4 months ago and after a month I had the same question, so I joined a band.

Turns out to be a good decision for a change, it gave me a very clear sense of purpose (learning ~50 songs and the technique to play them) That drove me to use every minute of my practice time doing things that directly led to me being ready for our first gig, I went a long way in that time IMO.

Went (mostly) well. A "demo" I made to learn basic video editing and to give to friends: http://www.youtube.com/user/sporting.../1/WCyyLkgt3t0

Now that the first one is over, I am going back and revisiting things to make me better and now those drills and lessons make sense and are easier to learn because I now see where they apply and what they help.

It's hard to commit something to memory that your mind doesn't know how to apply to a real world use. 100 million history test cheat notes to remember 'important' dates can't be wrong.

Great info Malcolm, thanks.

[Papa Dangerous]

Bass is such a beautiful thing because bass is always* in music... even if it is not necessarily on the bass clef. (I might get yelled at for saying that... *the only time I can say its not in music, is when there is a soloing monophonic higher register instrument) But as far as I have gathered, the lowest note you play when playing at least two notes is the bass note. With that, you can zillions of different styles of bass. So a great place to start is to find out what it was that made you want to play bass. I started with a guitar at 13, and then around 15 I was graced by the funk. I knew from that point I wanted to play bass, and I aimed my practice towards a rocking funk groove. Somewhere in the midst of playing well and playing terribly.. I experimented on so many things.. such as using double bass strings on my electric, and using a metal lighter casing for an interesting sound with my fingering hand (giggity). So once you have a goal, check youtube for left or right hand techniques to mess around with. Say you want to play some bluesy music, but get tired of playing the roots of each note. Try a walking bass line, which are arpeggios, so its a left hand exercise. If you want the funk, try slapping and popping the octaves for a start. You say you read music, so I am sure you are familiar with the great use of a rest.. these are great in funk.
Don't get to heavily involved in bass theory unless, say Baroque, is something of great interest to you. ( I may or may not be a bit off on that example.)
So bottom line.. find out what drives you, and start with looking at video techniques for it. When you get bored with it, or want to expand. Think of another interest and repeat.
And I found this very helpful.. and I did NOT have to even lift my bass to do it.. Read all about the bass/guitar. Read about wood, the pickups, the strings, the bridge. Get a good idea of what everything does. It seems to help your ability to play, when you know what you are physically playing!

[Papa Dangerous]

Originally Posted by Papa Dangerous

Don't get to heavily involved in bass theory unless, say Baroque, is something of great interest to you. ( I may or may not be a bit off on that example.)

too* and I do not mean ignore theory.. I just know it is too cumbersome sometimes and it takes a good amount to wrap your mind around. Harmony is very important.. but extensively studying theory does not need to be the only approach. If you are jamming.. Ask the guitarist which chords he is playing, then use basic music theory knowledge to arp. the proper notes.

[JTE]

Learn to read the music intervals instead of the notes. That makes moving from treble clef to bass clef a lot easier. Instead of seeing A to C, see the interval of a third.

Second, ignore all that mixolydian, pentatonic, dorian etc. confusion. Do you know the diatonic major scale? That's the only scale you REALLY "need" to know. But you gotta own it. Then learn, as mambo4 says, about harmonizing it to see how the chords of the major scale are derived.

Then learn basic chord construction- at the least a bassist should know how to figure out what notes are in these chords below (showing type of chord, construction, common symbol, and the notes of the example)....

A. Major (1 3 5) C C E G
B. Minor (1 b3 5) Cmin or C- C Eb G
C. Dominant 7 (1 3 5 b7) C7 C E G Bb
D. Augmented (1 3 #5) Caug or C+ C E G#
E. Diminished (1 b3 b5) Cdim or C° C Eb Gb
F. Major 7 (1 3 5 7) CMaj7 C E G B
G. Minor 7 (1 b3 5 b7) Cmin7 C Eb G Bb
H. Diminished 7 (1, b3, 5, bb7) Cdim7 or C°7 C Eb Gb Bbb

Learn some basic/common chord progressions- variations on 12-bar blues, ii V I, "Ice Cream" changes (the annoying 50's do-wop sound of I vi IV V), etc. Then when the guitarist says they're playing "a 12 bar in A" you know what three chords they're playing, what notes are in those three chords, and where they're going to change.

That and playing along with records. Eschew the obfuscation of tab. Use yer year. OK, so you won't start off playing "Bernadette" or Glady's Knight's version of "Heard It Through The Grapevine". But you should be able to pick out "My Girl" or "Ball Of Confusion" for example.

Can't pick stuff off of records well? Practice. Start with simple melodies you already know cold in your head, like "Happy Birthday" for example. Start on the D on the A string as your first note. Sing it. What direction is the next note? It can only be higher, lower, or the same so figure that out. Now you got two notes. What's the next?

It's exactly the same process as trying to cop "Havona" by Jaco Pastorious. Sing it and find it on the bass.

And enjoy the process!!

John

[Popbumper]

Originally Posted by MalcolmAmos

I took up the bass last year at 76. Lot of non bass musical experience. Back up and play some songs from fake chord - IMHO tabs are a dead end, OK to find out how a riff is played and things like that, but, I bet no one in the band will be passing out bass tabs for you to use - now fake chord - yes probably fake chord or lead sheets which have no bass clef. What you do with those chords is left up to you. So back up and play some of your favorite songs from fake chord using some bass lines you have put into muscle memory.

See a chord name and pull up a generic bass line in muscle memory. These will be friends:

Generic bass lines - that fall into a groove with just about any chord.
R-R-R-R
R-5-R-5
R-5-8-5

Specific bass lines.
R-3-5-X works with any major chord.
R-b3-5-X works with any minor chord.
R-b3-b5-X works with the diminished chords.
What is the X? What ever you want to make it, I use the sevens, love the neutral 6's or just add another correct 3 to round out the 4/4 time. Later let the X move you to the next chord, i.e. walking bass lines - plenty of time for that later.

Seventh bass lines.
R-3-5-7 works with maj7 chords.
R-3-5-b7 works with dominant seventh chords.
R-b3-5-b7 works with minor seventh chords.

No need to go beyond the 7ths at this stage in your playing. Roots, fives, eights and the correct 3 and 7 will be all you need.

Those few bass lines will let you play a lot of bass. Go back to the basics and then work back up to the complicated stuff in your own time frame.

See what you can do with this. YouTube - &#x202a;autumn leaves jam track&#x202c;&rlm;
R-R-R-R at first and when that gets easy go to R-5-R-5. Am7 = R-b3-5-b7 and will take a while. Roots first.

Have fun.

Oh, now that Youtube video is awesome!! That's a fantastic exercise. THANK YOU. And, congratulations on your own tenacity - I applaud you.

Chris

[Stumbo]

Originally Posted by Big Brother

I essentially started about 4 months ago and after a month I had the same question, so I joined a band.

+100

Use your ear, the theory will come along as you need it.

Have fun!

PS. Using a "slow downer" and "bass isolator" program can help a lot. Also, the same program can usually reduce the bass enough to create your own backing tracks. Check out the link in my sig. below for some great TB info/links to help you along the way. Good luck.

[Already In Use]

Knowing chord structure and the fretboard set me free. I play mostly from fake chord sheets and can plug away at just about anything. I'm often faced with songs I've never heard with the folks I play with and I can get by. I returned to bass after like 30 some odd years away from it about 1.5 years ago.

Learned a ton right here..

[catyak]

Originally Posted by MalcolmAmos

See what you can do with this. YouTube - &#x202a;autumn leaves jam track&#x202c;&rlm;
R-R-R-R at first and when that gets easy go to R-5-R-5. Am7 = R-b3-5-b7 and will take a while. Roots first.

That's a great link! Little fast for me right now but it's something to aim at.