P bass for Jazz band

[Mouseist]

Hi,

I decided to learn to play jazz before I become 40 years old (I am 35 now) and started with mim fender p-bass from Jan 01 this year. So much fun so far! But I was wondering if P-bass is ok for jazz music. I tried jazz and p-bass at music store and I really like thick neck and sound of p-bass. But sales guy told me p-bass is not good for jazz because it doesn't have the right sound for soloing. I bought p bass anyway but I am confused. Is it true? Should I change to Jazz bass in order to play jazz? Also is there any jazz bassist who play p-bass?
Thank you!

[Febs]

You do not need a Jazz Bass to play jazz. If you like the feel and sound of the P-Bass, then it will be a great bass for you to play jazz.

[MisterFabulous]

It won't work. If you try, no sound will come out of it: It's not a Jazz bass. You can only play on a Jazz!

Not. Really.

I have both. They sound quite different, and of course the neck thing. Play what you like.

[JFN]

The sales guy is an idiot. Either bass would be fine for jazz. If you put flats on you'll get closer to an upright bass tone, but you won't fool a DB player. Even in jazz, a bass player would solo for what, 2-3% of the total time spent playing a gig. I would think you would want a bass that sounds good for 95% or more of the actual playing you would do rather than the brief moment when get a solo, which no one would likely pay much attention to anyway. Even I get bored listening bass solos.

[ExaltBass]

In the mid 70's Chris Brubeck was playing a blonde factory fretless Rickenbacker bass on tour with his dad... swinging jazz just fine. I even got to talk to him afterward and try his bass... which gave me my initial fretless GAS. THAT would be one of the least likely bass choices for a 'jazz' bass... but did it work! (and I guess he's still playing it!)



I have used Precisions and P-Js and Jazz Basses (fretted & fretless), my Sigma ABG, a Hofner, etc. etc. on gigs Jazz/Rock/Funk... It's in your fingers, your tone & approach to playing. Heck, Steve Swallow kills as a jazzer playing with a PICK!

and that doesn't look like a typical Jazz bass rig either!

[neilshane]

Hey Mouseist, we're in the same boat! I'm 35 and trying to learn jazz too. I have a 1982 Fender AVRI '57 Precision bass. I put on some TI flats and stuck some foam under the strings at the bridge. I strike the stings near the neck. I'm sure it's not what a jazz professional would consider the "proper" way to play, since it's not an upright, but I think the tone is very jazz-like and it sounds great to me.

[Mouseist]

Thanks for reply. I am glad I can keep playing the bass I like! Maybe I should try flat strings later on then...
Thank you.

[tomwilliams1983]

I saw Chris Brubeck playing late last year and he's still got that beautiful fretless rick
phenomenal player with a great tone

[slipitin]

I'm with JFN...Plus it depends on what kind of Jazz you intend to play...if it's Coltrane/Mingus era stuff I would even suggest a P would be better. I say this because psychologically and fundamentally I consider P's to have a more upright-esque vibe...maybe it's just the substantial neck and the fact you can get more 'clunk' out of it. I occasionally find myself goofing around turning it upright and playing with two fingers together off the end of the fingerboard...with a good comp and defretter envelope style effect or even without you can get a thicker, woodier neck tone with a P. If however you're talking modern smooth Jazz like they play on daytime radio I think most of those guys are playing J type basses...not a fan myself. You can solo on anything, I play Jaco lines very comfortably on my P. They are very different basses, it's about finding what suits you personally.

[slipitin]

Oh and flats feel like cutlery...is it just me?

[ExaltBass]

Originally Posted by tomwilliams1983

I saw Chris Brubeck playing late last year and he's still got that beautiful fretless rick
phenomenal player with a great tone

AND a great guy! I asked him about his soloing and he said that he played on his bass what he heard himself play on trombone (1st instrument) and that's why he needed the fretless to have that slide sound that he heard in his head... phew!

[BigOldHarry]

Originally Posted by Febs

You do not need a Jazz Bass to play jazz. If you like the feel and sound of the P-Bass, then it will be a great bass for you to play jazz.

What!!! I thougth that why they called it a "Jazz Bass"!!!

Okay, seriously: I played in my high-school jazz band with a Gibson EB-1. The teacher used a fretless Ampeg bass (the likes of which I have never since seen). The guy who replaced me used a Mustang. The guy who had the chair at my new school had a p-bass.

All you need is *bass*.

[Mouseist]

Wow! I didn't know jaco is possible on p bass. This is so encouraging. What I like to do eventually is playing Ray Brown w/ Benny Green stuff. Also not jazz but Jackson 5, too :-)

[ethnotime]

Jazz tends to have more notes than most other genres of music and I think they come out clearer on a jazz bass than a p-bass. Because of the bridge pickup you can get some more highs in the tone and therefore the notes will ring out more clearly. A P-bass, as great as it is, tends to be more mids and more about feel and thump so all those notes and scales can sound a little muddy, making it difficult for the other musicians to hear what you're doing. I'm not even talking about soloing, just a walking bass line.

But if you're just starting out it doesn't really matter what electric bass you play so long as you have one to learn on. As you gain more experience, you'll find which bass suits you better.

Good luck and have fun

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by ethnotime

Jazz tends to have more notes than most other genres of music and I think they come out clearer on a jazz bass than a p-bass. Because of the bridge pickup you can get some more highs in the tone and therefore the notes will ring out more clearly. A P-bass, as great as it is, tends to be more mids and more about feel and thump so all those notes and scales can sound a little muddy, making it difficult for the other musicians to hear what you're doing. I'm not even talking about soloing, just a walking bass line.

100% completely and totally a matter of opinion.

[CGramazio]

I can't believe someone would even say that?? Play what you want, on what you want.

It all comes from your head and your hands.

[jedgargroover]

If you really want to get a more traditional jazz tone on an electric bass go with flats. I recommend D'Addario Chromes. Those and TI Jazz Flats tend to be the most popular choices from what I've seen.

I've played jazz on a Jazz bass, a P bass and an Ibanez Prestige SR3000E. The main differences I found had to do with feel and speed. P basses have a 1.75" nut (generally speaking) and are not quite as fast as Jazz basses, which have a 1.5" nut. The Ibanez has a 1.5" nut but a thinner neck and is a very fast bass. However, I find that the bass that feels most like an upright to me (I play upright too) is the P. The wider string spacing provides some of the same limitations (to me) as does an upright neck and allows me to more directly use some of the same technique I'd use on an upright on a bass guitar.

But for more involved soloing and doing chordal stuff I'd take the 1.5" nut.

I also play with a pick. I played with my fingers for years and then tendonitis forced me to go to a pick. Now I'm used to it and I've found that using the Carol Kaye approach (wanna hear some great jazz on bass guitar? check out the record she did with Mitch Holder and Ray Pizzi called "Thumbs Up") of playing flats with a pick up close to the neck with the tone rolled almost all the way off gives me a great tone. Great for jazz and great for lots of other stuff.

And as I sit here I'm listening to the Scofield Trio album "Enroute" and Steve Swallow tears it up on his Citron bass (pictured above)...playing not just with a pick but a *brass* pick. Thomastic Acousticore strings on a *fretted* neck. Awesome tone. Yes, about $5k for the bass...but if I could play half as well as Steve Swallow I'd drop the cash and get one myself!

Anybody who tells you that you can't play jazz on a P is just trying to make a sale. Spend $30 on some D'Addario Chromes, roll the tone off and play jazz to your heart's delight.

[jedgargroover]

Originally Posted by Mouseist

Wow! I didn't know jaco is possible on p bass. This is so encouraging. What I like to do eventually is playing Ray Brown w/ Benny Green stuff. Also not jazz but Jackson 5, too :-)

If you want to get a tone more in the neighborhood of Ray Brown I'd go with the P with flats for sure. And if you want to do Motown stuff...well...James Jamerson is about as famous of a P player as you'll encounter. A P with flats. In fact, LaBella even makes a set of Jamerson flats...which I personally hate but they're out there.

But Jaco played a Jazz and if you want to get that kind of tone you'll need that bridge pickup and roundwound strings. My suggestion is to have a P strung with flats and a fretless Jazz with LaBella black nylon tapewounds or a fretted Jazz with a maple board and roundwounds, like here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmJ7EKkv93o

Then you'll have your basses covered. Guys argue about the merits of P vs Jazz all the time. I say own one of each and you can't go wrong!

[Audiophage]

If you play with real jazz cats you can play jazz with any bass. You don't need a bridge pickup to cut through more. You just need to know how to blend depending on the context which can be done with any combination of pickups you feel comfortable with. The name "Jazz Bass" is highly misleading.

[dvh]

Originally Posted by CGramazio

I can't believe someone would even say that?? Play what you want, on what you want.

It all comes from your head and your hands.

The truth. Any bass can do the job. It's up to the player to make it sing...