Pacman's sure-fire scale practice method - Page 11

98dvl · #**201** 03-14-2007, 02:17 PM

So, I finally got around to trying this method last night... And, while I only got around to doing the first seven boxes of an F Major scale, I can see what a useful tool it is. I found it fairly easy to learn the patterns, and get a feel for where the notes would be on the fretboard as I moved up the neck for each box...

I know most people don't recommend using a book as an aide for such an activity... However, I find that sometimes it's often easier to learn/remember something when you have more than one of your senses "triggered" while you're learning... For example, let's say you meet someone at a party, and they tell you their name. Ten minutes later, you will probably forget the name they told you. But, if that person were wearing a name tag and you could SEE their name when you HEARD them say their name, you would probably remember their name even a week later. There have been studies on this sort of thing, and it's a good memory technique as you can associate two different bits of information in your recollection... (Personally, when I meet someone, I like to get their first and last names, as last names are easier for me to remember as they're not as common - the last name will often trigger the first name for me, nametags aren't usually handy!)

I only bring this up, because as I was doing this last night, I had my copy of the Bass Grimoire beside me. About halfway through, I cracked it open just to take a look. Wouldn't you know, all the patterns are found very easily on the pages. I started to look at the pattern I was working on as I was saying the note function of each box up the remainder of the neck. I think this helped me to get a better visual of the patterns, and combining that with saying and hearing each note, it really helped me to remember everything a little easier (I can picture the first couple of patterns in my head as I type this).

I can understand how some might think that using a book is "cheating" but I think that if you use it correctly, it can help. What I did last night was close the book before moving to the next pattern, so that I would have to figure it out (although, it came easily), then, once I was sure I had it, I'd open the book back up and check, just to make sure. Having the book also will help with really obscure "scales" as the Grimoire has everything you could think of, and then some.

Anyway, I have a question for those of you using this method... How long do you practice this for each night, and how many "scales" do you go through? I spent about an hour and a half (it was late when I started) last night, just going through the F Major scale, so I didn't even get around to trying F Dorian, or any of the other "scales". However, I spent a pretty good deal of time on each pattern group (box) up the neck, just so that it would really sink in.

How many "scales" are you getting through when you sit down to do this? Are you just going through each pattern once, then moving on to the next? Or are you spending a considerable amount of time on each pattern before going to the next?

Also, what is the next logical step to putting everything together??? I could learn every scale up and down the neck of my bass, but what information do I need to get to the next level? I know I can play an F Major scale over an F chord, and it will sound good, and by mixing up the notes of the scale, and falling on certain tones at certain times will sound good as well... But, is there more to it than that? Will an F major scale sound good over any other chords? If so, how do I know which ones? What other info is good to learn to actually apply all the scales that I'm learning with this method?

Thanks for the advice!

Attenergy · #**202** 03-27-2007, 08:06 AM

WOW!!!! I am a begining bass player who has chosen the "fretless" electric as my weapon of music creation ... This thread (I've read from the begining to about the 7th page and will get through all of it but I am at work and really had to peel myself away from it) is powerful!!! I've spent a ton of money on books, tapes, cd's and the like and have not gotten this much information out of them. You guys are the best and in the world of scams and everyone out for themselves, it is sooooooooo refreshing to see so many wonderful people sharing their hard earned knowledge because they sincerely want the next man to grow!!! UNBELIEVABLE!!!! There is a GOD after all and I now POSITIVE, "HE PLAYS THE BASS!!!!"

My question, and if it has been addressed, please forgive me, is, "what are the most important scales, chords, modes, arpeggios etc I should know first as a jazz bass guitarist?!?!? Then I can get going on the method of The Great PacMan!!!!!

thanks for all your help PacMan!!! Thanks for all the people who have asked questions and contributed to this thread and kept it alive long enough for me to discover it!!!!!!

**Pacman** · #**203** 03-27-2007, 01:15 PM

If you want an order, and this is just off the top of my head... try this:

Major
Mixolydian
Dorian
Natural Minor (aolean)
Blues
Pentatonics

By the time you get comfortable with those, you'll be more aware of what you need, and want.

Attenergy · #**204** 03-27-2007, 01:22 PM

Thank you PacMan!!! Now ... should I practice these in just the flat keys or all keys?!?!?!

**WillPlay4Food** · #**205** 03-27-2007, 03:01 PM

Practice everything in all keys. As you go through, note which keys are your strengths and weaknesses and tailor your practice routine accordingly. Myself I can deal with flats easier than sharps for some reason so I spend extra time working on sharped keys because the flatted keys come easier to me.

Attenergy · #**206** 03-27-2007, 03:18 PM

I was afraid of that!!! OK ... I am up to the challenge of getting the job done!!! Should I practice all the modes as well?!?!?! And when do I know that I am skilled enough to give the PacMan "box" method a go?!?!?! Thanks WillPlay4Food for your assistance here ...

**Pacman** · #**207** 03-28-2007, 04:14 AM

Go slow, and despite the temptation, don't try to "master" one scale before moving on. You want everything to "grow" similarly, so try one scale today, the next tomorrow, etc. Then rotate them around through the keys.

Attenergy · #**208** 03-28-2007, 06:43 AM

PacMan ... you are unbelievable!!! I will approach the bass as you say. Long live this thread!!!!!

**WillPlay4Food** · #**209** 03-28-2007, 07:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Attenergy

I was afraid of that!!! OK ... I am up to the challenge of getting the job done!!! Should I practice all the modes as well?!?!?! And when do I know that I am skilled enough to give the PacMan "box" method a go?!?!?! Thanks WillPlay4Food for your assistance here ...

Due to my limited practice time I can only practice one scale per day, so I don't practice bunches at a time. If I did have the time, I would practice the modes so I was doing C Ionian, C Dorian, C Phrygian, etc. Basically, I would practice all modes with C as a starting point vs. practicing C Ionian, D Dorian, etc., which would be all modes derived from the scale of C Ionian.

I'd rather hear all of the different modes based on the same starting note so I could really get the difference between C Ionian and C Phrygian (for example) into my ears and into my head. To me this would be more important to what I need to learn for myself.

Attenergy · #**210** 03-28-2007, 07:15 AM

Great Stuff!!!! Thank you WillPlay4Food!!! this is GREAT stuff and I do appreciate you guys sharing. I did not want to let go of my dream to play because I could not get adequate teachers or answers. You guys have given me the confidence to go at it and I know when I come to a crossroad (which there will be many) I have you guys as my "sages" to guide me. I will make it ... Thanks!!! This is a tremedous site. Everyone MUST know about this!!!! All the Best to you guys ALL THE TIME!!!!!!

**WillPlay4Food** · #**211** 04-02-2007, 08:49 AM

I put the following post in a different thread and the thread promptly died (maybe I am the true thread killer?). Hopefully it'll gain more traction here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by WillPlay4Food

I made this T-PIG (Theory Practice Idea Generator) based on a post tim99 made once here on TB. This can be used to (as the name implies) generate practice ideas, but will only be good if you have some theory background. The arrows are magnetic (as is the sheet they're stuck on) so I can move methodically through the keys or scale types without losing my place.

http://mypicspace.home.comcast.net/T..._Generator.jpg

Attenergy · #**212** 04-02-2007, 09:05 AM

Thank You WillPlay4Food ... I will look deeper into this tonight before I practice and come back to you with questions!!!! You guys are the best!!!!

**Pacman** · #**213** 04-03-2007, 11:09 AM

Chili - there's no "major 5th" chord, and I've explained the boxes in this thread...

rhythmchanges · #**214** 05-22-2007, 08:36 AM

Pacman... great stuff! Had a quick question. I understand the different mental approach to modes and playing through the scale in its entirety (focusing on a specific tonal center), but I have a specific question regarding your thought process.
Let's say you are running the 'C' scale on a six string. Do you think of or feel the initial 'B' as an anacrusis or down beat? For example, when running eighth notes with a metronome set to quarters, do you play the 'B' on the beat or on the 'and'?
I would assume that you always start on the beat and push past the initial awkwardness.
Also, I've taken to playing the root in every octave in the box I'm practicing prior to and after I run the scale through the whole box.
(Example, again in 'C'
- B string : fret 1,
- A String : fret 3,
- C String : open,
- A String : fret 3,
- B string : fret 1,
- run the scale starting with low 'B' to high "E' on the 'C' string and back,
- B string : fret 1,
- A String : fret 3,
- C String : open,
- A String : fret 3,
- B string : fret 1,)
Thoughts?

BTW, saw the AF thing. Do you know Dale (Langley) and/or Leo (Germany)?

**Pacman** · #**215** 05-23-2007, 07:35 AM

Changes,

I don't rythmically displace anything (initially), even though you might do that when soloing. I'm trying to drive that sound into my head and be comfortable with the awkwardness.

I like the idea of playing the root after playing the box. It's another way to cement the sound of each tone against the tonal center - great idea.

Sorry, don't know either of those guys...

sushi · #**216** 07-12-2007, 07:55 AM

Pacman and all of you on this forum - Thanks so much for this. I am just beginning with the bass, just bought a fretless, and have enuf info to last me the next 5 years. THAnks!!!

Asa Samuel · #**217** 07-12-2007, 09:26 AM

i like the 'quick fix' i learnt a long time ago for major scales.

this is mainly for bigginer/inexperienced bassists as experienced bassists should know them all anyway.

its for if your going to write a song in a major key but, uh oh, you aint practised that scale yet.

221.

in other words, 2 frets, 2frets, 1 fret.

start on the root note, jump up 2 frets, jump up another 2 frets, then 1 fret, and repeat.

its just an easy way to go through a major scale if you need an EXTREMELY quick fix.

this ONLY works for major scales.

(all the really experienced players dont beat me up about this its just a suggestion)

**WillPlay4Food** · #**218** 07-12-2007, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joshua

It might be that my morning java hasn't kicked in yet, but wouldn't "221 repeat" in a major scale flat the 7th tone?

Yea, this would work for a dominant scale.

Since I'm posting in this thread again I'm going to throw up this link one more time.

http://mypicspace.home.comcast.net/T..._Generator.jpg

**Pacman** · #**219** 07-12-2007, 10:52 AM

As I've stated a bunch, "quick fixes" are seldom either....

Guinness · #**220** 07-19-2007, 01:54 PM

I have a question about these excercises (sorry, I'm still trying to understand theory)...say by playing an A major scale starting from the the lowest note in the scale, wouldn't you actually be playing the scale in the F# minor mode?