Parents of Young Bassists [support/info]

[Stev187]

Hello TB people:

I thought I'd start a thread for parents of younger bass players. Specifically, I thought the thread could be a way to connect and share stories about helping young electric bassists learn and stay motivated. We could do this by sharing successes, failures, and ideas. I've noticed that there are a few of us out there on other threads, so I guess there will be a few of us here. What do you think?

Chime in if one of your kids is a budding bassist. In a separate post, I'll get the discussion going by asking people to introduce their "students."

--Steve

P.S. Below are some TB threads that are similar but not identical to this topic.

• Bass for kids
• Best way to teach kids
• Bass Lessons for kids
• Starting them young

[Stev187]

Originally Posted by Stev187

In a separate post, I'll get the discussion going by asking people to introduce their "students."

Hey gang! Please post here about your kids/students if you like. No pressure to do so if you're private, etc.

Allow me to introduce Owen.



Owen is #18 of the Squier Jaguar Short Scale club here on TB. We gave him that bass for his 10th birthday while on vacation in Memphis, TN. He had just visited the Stax studios and Graceland. He's been playing bass for about 5 months and really loves it. He started off with piano and still takes piano lessons.

While I am capable of being his teacher and have given him a few lessons, I really wanted him to have a different teacher. He's using Ed Friedland's Hal Leonard Method, which is excellent IMHO. He's also enrolled at a local "School of Rock" type place called Rock Stars Academy, where he plays in a weekly band class with other kids his age. While Owen does go online, we don't let him have his own accounts at places like facebook and TB yet.

Anyhow, that's us. I have tons of ideas and questions and issues to throw out there if others are interested. I also want to know what other parents think about their younger kids playing bass guitar.

--Steve

[Bassplayer92]

Hey Steve, I just found this thread while looking for ideas to help my son learn the bass. I got my 10 year old the same Squier SS Jag you have (and posted a pic in the Jag club with yours). I was wondering if Owen uses one finger per fret or uses his whole hand to fret say B then moves his hand up to fret C. I told my son that this method is actually more work and slowing him down, but he says it feels more comfortable for him. Maybe he just doesn't have the finger muscles built up just yet and I should cut him some slack right now. What do you think?

[Stev187]

Hi! I've thought about this a lot.

Owen's 10-year old hand and the 30" scale of the SS Jag are a pretty good match. My preference has been to show him things using a 3-finger approach similar to what I use with double bass (traditional Simandl) where you use fingers 1-2-4 on the LH. This is the method in Ed Friedland's Hal Leonard books, too.

That said, I notice him doing lots of different things, especially when he's learning lines in his rock band class. And I am just letting this happen. I don't want to get all pedantic on him. Now that I look at this picture of Owen, I see that he's pretty much in the 1-2-4 position.

FWIW, I use a one-finger-per-fret method on electric bass, which is how I was taught when I picked up the instrument at 18. Sometimes I use the double bass fingerings on bass guitar, and when I do I think that would be perfect for younger players with small hands. Only rarely do you need to shift up or down a half step for most passages.

The example you gave is interesting (going from B to C). Owen will still do that on occasion, and he reported the same thing--it feels more natural to shift his whole hand. One thing I've done is try to put those notes in some kind of context where he can see that it would be harder to do that quickly. Some of the songs he's working on for band class are great examples, even if they are on different notes.

Great issue to discuss!.

--Steve

[Bassplayer92]

Yeah I don't want to be too critical so early in the game, but on the other hand, I want him to learn good technique. I also learned 1 finger per fret when I started, but developed a bad habit of tucking my pinky in my palm. I still catch myself doing that once in a while.

Anyway I've let it go for the most part and concentrating to play in tempo and playing more legato.

By the way, what is rock band class and how does it work? Sounds like a fun idea!

Brian

[Stev187]

Hey Brian:

I'm tempted to send you a PM in response, but it occurs to me that others might read these and join us; the posts might also be informative to people in the future. I know I've learned things from TB posts that were several years old.

1. Good Technique vs. Maintained Interest

Wow, that's the name of the game right there. With a 10 year old, if these are in conflict I am going with interest/fun every time. My first lessons with Owen were all about c-clamp shape and ergonomics, but I've stopped "correcting" his technique when it's clear that he's having a great time and not hurting himself. My view is that if he has enough proper guidance on technique in small doses, he'll apply it himself when he recognizes that it's easier or more musical to use good form. Finally, it seems like it will be easier to correct "poor" technique later than it would be to undo negative experiences or bad associations, especially when music is competing with other pre-teen interests like football.

2. What is "good technique" anyway, when you have small hands that are going to grow fast and soon?

Again, I mentioned that after much consideration of LH technique, my pedagogical preference for Owen is for him to use 1-2-4 as though he were learning traditional double bass fingerings. The rationale for this is well documented on the DB side of this forum; the ring finger is weak on its own, and the 3rd and 4th fingers can function as one unit with a half step between 1-2-4. I didn't take out a ruler and calculator, but Owen's hands are about the same proportion to his 30" short scale bass as my hands are to my 41.5" scale double bass. Now, he deviates from this quite a bit, and I just take note of it for later. As far as RH goes, he wanted to use a pick quite a bit at the beginning, and I didn't interfere. He has gradually come to prefer two finger pizzicato, mostly because the songs he likes really require that you play that way. IMHO, this is the best way: let the music boss him around so I don't have to! Right now his band class teachers are suggesting that he not rest his thumb on the pickup; I don't do this myself, but I really fail to see the problem with it and decided not to provide them with a long list of famous players who have done that. I have also resisted the temptation to get into a pedagogical discussion with his teacher about this. I have disciplined myself to ask: "What did you do in your lesson?" and finish with "Are you having fun?" As long as I don't have a major objection to the answers to these questions, I am staying out of it. That said, I have a LOT to say about this in the future if the discussion continues!

3. Band Class

Originally Posted by Bassplayer92

By the way, what is rock band class and how does it work? Sounds like a fun idea!

Did you see the movie School of Rock? Well, think back to the last scenes of the movie where the kids are doing "rock band" as an after-school activity, and you basically have the idea. This place is called Rock Stars Academy, and it's run by some really cool (and terribly disorganized) kids in a storefront that used to be a ski shop. It's not super expensive, and it's the highlight of Owen's week. On Thursdays from 6:30 - 8PM he's there for an hour of band class and a half hour bass lesson afterward. The band class has a couple of guitarists, a vocalist, a drummer, and an older bass player (age 14) who has become Owen's bass mentor. They are working up a set to play at a local club: stuff like KISS, Sabbath, Twisted Sister, Green Day, Blur, etc. It's loud, messy, and every bit as cool as it sounds. Looks like there's a national chain of similar places (which are probably more organized and maybe a bit more expensive): Here's one in Kansas City.

--Steve

[Bassplayer92]

Thanks for the good tips Steve. I like the idea to let the music boss him around for now unless he tries to do something crazy. Today he was having trouble playing F to G on the low E string and thought he could reach over the top and play it easily. I had to say no to that and said why don't you try bending your elbow more to bring the head up higher. He did and it was easy for him to play.

I checked out that school of rock site. I didn't even know we had that here. He's not ready for that now anyway, but it's something to keep in mind. Our neighbor and church friends play drums and they know a girl their age that plays guitar and I guess has written some songs. We might see if we can get them all together and they can jam and we'll have our own neighborhood school of rock.