Patterns of Modes

[baddarryl]

Hi All. I have a book (Monster Scales and Modes) for guitar actually that I am using. It has diagrams of all the scales and modes across the whole fretboard broken into patterns. As in how to play A Dorian over the whole board. As always being a pattern player this is good for me, but I have a question.

The examples are given in A and I have noticed that by simply shifting the different patterns up and down the neck to whatever root I want to play and I get it. I just move each pattern up or down the corresponding number of frets. Have I just found the shortcut to using modes across keys all over the fretboard? I think the same patterns work for all keys, but sometimes it makes no rhyme or reason to where they shift to in relation to the root. Could the 1/2 step from B to C and similarly E to F put a kink in this idea? Or is there something easy to remember that nuance? As I said moving the patterns around seems to work most of the time but not quite all.

I went from A Dorian to G Dorian and it all worked, but when I went to B Dorian all worked except for one of the patterns where a note did have to be changed. This is the nuance I am talking about. Can I assume the same pattern that worked in G and A will work in all keys other than C or F? Sorry about the long wind. I hope this is understandable. Going to look some more and hopefully answer my own question! Thanks!

[Gawd]

Yes, moving the patterns around does work, as the whole/half note relations of scales remains consistent in any key. It's just important to understand how the modes are connected. The fingering patterns work in all keys, including B, it may be something you're overlooking, or perhaps over thinking the B to C and F to E.

[baddarryl]

Yes sometimes I over think things! Thanks. I will dive more into it tomorrow. Thanks.

[Mike Dimin]

Originally Posted by baddarryl

Hi All. I have a book (Monster Scales and Modes) for guitar actually that I am using. It has diagrams of all the scales and modes across the whole fretboard broken into patterns. As in how to play A Dorian over the whole board. As always being a pattern player this is good for me, but I have a question.

The examples are given in A and I have noticed that by simply shifting the different patterns up and down the neck to whatever root I want to play and I get it. I just move each pattern up or down the corresponding number of frets. Have I just found the shortcut to using modes across keys all over the fretboard? I think the same patterns work for all keys, but sometimes it makes no rhyme or reason to where they shift to in relation to the root. Could the 1/2 step from B to C and similarly E to F put a kink in this idea? Or is there something easy to remember that nuance? As I said moving the patterns around seems to work most of the time but not quite all.

I went from A Dorian to G Dorian and it all worked, but when I went to B Dorian all worked except for one of the patterns where a note did have to be changed. This is the nuance I am talking about. Can I assume the same pattern that worked in G and A will work in all keys other than C or F? Sorry about the long wind. I hope this is understandable. Going to look some more and hopefully answer my own question! Thanks!

FYI, my instructional book, "The CORE Method" is an entire methodology based around the symmetrical nature of the bass. Here is a link

http://www.bassbooks.com/shopping/shopexd.asp?id=965

I also am available
for lessons via SKYPE

Mike Dimin

[MalcolmAmos]

Another thing you might want to incorporate into your mode playing is using the major scale pattern for your major modes and the natural minor scale pattern for your minor modes and then change one note for the mood of the mode you are looking for. That is the pitch axis or parallel mode system. Works like this.

The major scale box pattern

• Ionian use the major scale pattern. -- 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7
• Lydian use the major scale and sharp the 4th. -- 1, 2, 3, #4, 5, 6, 7
• Mixolydian use the major scale and flat the 7th. --1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, b7

The natural minor scale box pattern

• Aeolian use the natural minor scale pattern. -- 1, 2, b3, 4, 5, b6, b7
• Dorian use the natural minor pattern and sharp the b6 to a natural 6. -- 1, 2, b3, 4, 5, 6, b7
• Phrygian use the natural minor scale pattern and flat the 2. -- 1, b2, b3, 4, 5, b6, b7
• Locrian use the natural minor pattern and flat the 2 and 5. -- 1, b2, b3, 4, b5, b6, b7

This keeps you in one spot on the fretboard and I find it much easier to use in songs. Want Dorian's attractive jazz sound and feel - take the natural minor pattern and sharp the b6 back to a natural 6. Want the dreamy feel of Lydian use the major scale and sharp the 4. Yes the key stays in what ever you were using. With parallel modes the key stays the same and the notes change.

Now none of that modal mood is going to come about unless you have the characteristic note of the mode droning in the background, i.e. in a modal vamp. So if the chord progression you are playing over does not have a chord with the characteristic note in it's makeup - good luck sustaining the mood. Making modes and using modes are two different things.

http://www.ibreathemusic.com/forums/...698#post143698

Just something else to think about.

Those five patterns you learned no need in throwing them away, if you want to blaze up and down the fretboard, you have them, and I bet if you check they are five of the seven mode patterns. So your time has not been waisted there is a place for this and there is a place for pitch axis. Understand there are two ways to play modes - use the one that best flows with what you are trying to do.

Have fun.

[mambo4]

+1 to Malcom's post
Better to understand modes in terms of how they are constructed vs a major scale.

the B-C and E-F has no effect on the "pattern" ...it only matters when you have to name the notes of the scale you are playing -which you should be able to at least quickly figure out, if not outright have them memorized. If you know the names of the notes on your fret board, you can quickly "look up" the notes your are actually playing.

naming the notes you play is useful because the "pattern" boxes -while a good start - are really kinda limited. they fall apart when you have to do things like play near the nut & incorporate open strings, or if you need to start the mode on something other than a root.

[baddarryl]

Originally Posted by mambo4

+1 to Malcom's post
Better to understand modes in terms of how they are constructed vs a major scale.

the B-C and E-F has no effect on the "pattern" ...it only matters when you have to name the notes of the scale you are playing -which you should be able to at least quickly figure out, if not outright have them memorized. If you know the names of the notes on your fret board, you can quickly "look up" the notes your are actually playing.

naming the notes you play is useful because the "pattern" boxes -while a good start - are really kinda limited. they fall apart when you have to do things like play near the nut & incorporate open strings, or if you need to start the mode on something other than a root.

That is exactly what I was getting at. The patterns shown allow you to play the mode or scale in the right key anywhere on the board. I guess I was wondering if those patterns themselves would change with key changes and not just position.

What to flatten or sharpen related to the minor or major scale is definitely an eye opener for me. Thanks.

[Mike Dimin]

Originally Posted by baddarryl

That is exactly what I was getting at. The patterns shown allow you to play the mode or scale in the right key anywhere on the board. I guess I was wondering if those patterns themselves would change with key changes and not just position.

What to flatten or sharpen related to the minor or major scale is definitely an eye opener for me. Thanks.

Man, you REALLY need to check out my book make everything crystal clear for where you are heading with this

[Icculus]

Malcom to the rescue again. You're a huge help, my friend.

[BassChuck]

Originally Posted by Mike Dimin

FYI, my instructional book, "The CORE Method" is an entire methodology based around the symmetrical nature of the bass. Here is a link

http://www.bassbooks.com/shopping/shopexd.asp?id=965

This is a great book. It really unlocks the fretboard. I liked if not only for what it showed, but how it made me think about the neck. Its worth it.

[Drifta]

It's all about recognizing how it all relates to each other.

It's something i'm working on with my bass teacher. Run the Arpeggios of the scale, then the Mode of the major scale, see how they relate.

It's cool to work backwards sometimes

for example; take one of the mode patterns say the 5 dominant chord, play it anywhere on the neck, like maybe on the G, now work backwards and find the root chords (Ionian IMaj7) in the proper key.

[JB36]

Originally Posted by Mike Dimin

FYI, my instructional book, "The CORE Method" is an entire methodology based around the symmetrical nature of the bass. Here is a link

http://www.bassbooks.com/shopping/shopexd.asp?id=965

I also am available
for lessons via SKYPE

Mike Dimin

I'm interested in this book, but it sold out at the bassbooks website. Where can I get a copy?

[Mike Dimin]

Originally Posted by JB36

I'm interested in this book, but it sold out at the bassbooks website. Where can I get a copy?

PM sent.

[vinny]

Originally Posted by JB36

I'm interested in this book, but it sold out at the bassbooks website. Where can I get a copy?

Me too. Who else has it?

[Mike Dimin]

Originally Posted by vinny

Me too. Who else has it?

The book is also available directly from me. Please PM and I will send you the info.

If you have an account with Bassbooks.com, I am sending more to them but that might be a few weeks before they have them in stock.

[vinny]

PM sent.

[Mike Dimin]

Originally Posted by vinny

PM sent.

right back at ya

[Eo Reilly]

PM'd

[Mike Dimin]

Originally Posted by Eo Reilly

PM'd

answered