Pentatonics, Downbeats and Chord Tones. Oh My.

[Intenzity]

Have you been sitting around lately asking yourself -

"Bass Playing Self, I wonder what mode/pattern/position of the minor pentatonic scale is the absolutely strongest one, the one that outlines the current chord by using the most chord tones available and putting them in the most powerfully rhythmic position possible. Hmmm.

Is it when you start a minor pentatonic scale the 5th? Or maybe from the third? How does one even determine which one is stronger anyways?"

I won't spoil it by giving away the answer, but the answer is explained and contained in a PDF at the link below (which has pictures and everything) and shows you the the answer.

It may surprise you which one it is.

http://bassoridiculoso.blogspot.com/...ord-tones.html

More free bass stuff from basso ridiculoso. Some people clicked the "more like this" button at the blog.... so here is some "more like this". Enjoy.

[joroched]

Well that link dosn't seem to work as link should, so I,m guessing the root.

[Intenzity]

fixed.

And that is incorrect, sir. As the great Carson might say. Incorrect.

There is one that is but even stronger.

[joroched]

The link is fixed, but I didn't get the PDF file from it. OK I'm sucked in, so I tryed a 4th-5th-b3- root pattern

[onosson]

Interesting... that's the pattern I most use on guitar (well, actually starting on the 6...) but I never thought about why - it just feels right.

[joroched]

Interesting, I tryed it on guitar. Sounds good, but you fooled me talking about the minor pent and then starting on the 6th. Still sounds good.

[Intenzity]

Unfortunately, the only way to include pdf's with blogger is with a plug-in, so you have to have Flash turned on.

Those two big documents in the post are pdf's you can either print or download from the embedded flash thingy.

[joroched]

I see on the blog it's starting on the 7th, b7 I assume, which is close to the 6th. Cool stuff. I'll save the site.

[monroe55]

Originally Posted by joroched

Interesting, I tryed it on guitar. Sounds good, but you fooled me talking about the minor pent and then starting on the 6th. Still sounds good.

I'm confused. I thought the "6th" note of a minor pentatonic scale is actually the root, again.
Originally, I was taught the shape of the Major pentatonic and from it, the 5 patterns built off each successive note in its scale, as the OP demonstrates but with the use of the minor Pent. The "minor "pentatonic is derived just from starting on the 5th note of the Major pentatonic, right? And the same 5 patterns unfold from there, the last one being the "minor" Pentatonic you discuss originally.
So whats all this about? Am I over thinking something?
I liked the discussion on chord tone placement and the Bergonzi patterns from the OP but this thread seems rudimentary in relation to that. Im not trying to sound insulting please understand. I like the website a lot. Im just a bit confused.

[onosson]

Originally Posted by monroe55

I'm confused. I thought the "6th" note of a minor pentatonic scale is actually the root, again.
Originally, I was taught the shape of the Major pentatonic and from it, the 5 patterns built off each successive note in its scale, as the OP demonstrates but with the use of the minor Pent. The "minor "pentatonic is derived just from starting on the 5th note of the Major pentatonic, right? And the same 5 patterns unfold from there, the last one being the "minor" Pentatonic you discuss originally.
So whats all this about? Am I over thinking something?
I liked the discussion on chord tone placement and the Bergonzi patterns from the OP but this thread seems rudimentary in relation to that. Im not trying to sound insulting please understand. I like the website a lot. Im just a bit confused.

I think he probably meant what I did in my post, where I was referring to a 6th interval. An octave might be the 6th note in a pentatonic scale, but it's still an OCTave - an 8th interval. The position the OP refers to starts with the index finger where a (below) 6th interval would be, even though that note is not used in the minor pentatonic.

[subexpression]

I treat every minor pentatonic like a m7 chord, and occasionally throw out the 4th to maximize the synchronization of chord tones & downbeats. So then, every box pattern has the same potential...if I see a 4th coming up on beat 1 or 3, I omit it, and the box pattern turns into a minor 7th chord arpeggio.

I see what you're saying about the fifth box (starting on the b7) maximizes the ratio of chord tones/downbeats.

It's the 4th scale degree (the C in G minor pentatonic) which creates the inherent weakness.

But then again, box five (starting on the b7) is the strongest choice only if you're playing straight quarter notes.

Walking in 8th notes changes things. When it's 8th notes, the first, second and fifth boxes are equally as effective, whereas the third and fourth boxes are weak.

The key to this is to avoid playing the 4th scale degree on beats 1 & 3.

[Intenzity]

You are confused, heck, I am confused.

6th? Yea, there are only 5 (unique) notes in a pentatonic scale, hence the name penta = five. There are scales with six notes, and shockingly enough they are called hexatonics. Bergonzi wrote about book about them too. They are also called triad pairs, thats the terminology another sax player named Gary Campbell calls them in his book called shockingly enough "Triad Pairs".

But in a minor pentatonic, there is no 6th degree (as pointed out, if you go up six notes...it is the root again) and so maybe he means a 6th interval, because there are some of those that exist within the scale, in Gmin for instance, F (the seventh) to D (the fith) if you go up, is an interval of a sixth.

But other than that, I have no idea what the references to the 6th stuff means.

The main point of the article is that when you start a pentatonic scale from different places, each starting position has some specific rhythmic and harmonic qualities you should be aware of and either take advantage of them or avoid them depending on what you are after.

[subexpression]

Awesome post!

EDIT: monroe55 was thinking about the 6th scale degree of a major scale is the relative minor, but got the terms, scales, and degrees mixed up.

Anyway...chord tones & downbeats...essential stuff