Perfect pitch, can this be learned?

[Fire-Starter]

I usually have seen this demonstated by someone at a Piano playing any note, and the person listening will call out/sing back what the note is. My questions are...

1: Does perfect pitch mean you know any note that is played by someone weather on a Piano, Guitar, Flute, Bass, or what-ever, since I know for a fact I can hear notes more clear from treble like instruments than bass.

2:Can this be learned, or is this a Musical gift that some just have and some do not? i.e..can I sit my 6 year old down at the piano, and play notes until she is able to sing each and everyone of them at any given moment?


3:I am near sited, (I can see things closer to me than further out)...I have this same problem..for lack of a better term with my ears, I can hear treble instruments and usually play the note on the piano/or bass with no problem, but I often find when I try to recall a bass line/note I have heard, I may be a half or whole step off when I go back to the bass to play it???? I usually find this out when I listen to the bass part while the song is playing and I am playing back along with what I THOUGHT was the right notes, but I am off by a half step or so?? not sure why this is. I hope someone can shed some light on this situation with my ears, it really bugs me as well as the first two questions.

[PocketGroove82]

I think there have been many threads relating to perfect pitch.
I would try a seach for them!

[Deacon_Blues]

Yep, a search would be useful. Anyway -

Perfect pitch is the ability to tell straight away the name of any played note, or to be able to sing a note without any reference. (At least this is my interpretation of it)

I believe it cannot be learned, at least properly, unless you're born with it. My twinbrother has it naturally, I haven't got it but I have learned to recognize pitches somewhat accurately using my voice as a reference. I can usually also tell if a guitar is tuned down, especially if it's one whole step. But this is learned and not by far as accurate and fast as my brother's perfect pitch. He can tell the name of a note as quickly as I can tell the name of a colour when I see it (he's colourblind).

I think the hype around Perfect Pitch is overrated. It doesn't make anyone a (better) musician. You still have to work as hard as anyone on your timing, phrasing and technique to become good. It doesn't give very much "for free", although a lot of people think it does. It only saves you from having to develop a good relative pitch. A good relative pitch is as useful as perfect pitch and it can be developed. Anyone can learn to get a decent relative pitch by ear training, I think. It's only a matter of how much effort you put in.

Sorry if this wasn't a clear answer on your questions, but anyway I hope it cleared up something for you.

[coolrunner989]

perfect pitch is a natural talent somebody is born with coupled with a little bit of practical music recognition/knowledge. You dont just pop out a baby that hears a note and says that it is Ab, but if you play them the note, tell them the name, they will understand it and be able to recognize alot better than somebody who doesnt have perfect pitch. Practice + talent = perfect pitch.

you can learn to recognize notes but it will take a heck of a long time, and it wont be as acurate (generally speaking). so it's not really perfect pitch, just the practice part.
my guitar friend can tune an acoustic guitar just because he has done it so much he can tell if it is off or not. most other note he can take a guess and and get it right, but he doesnt have perfect pitch.

But do sit down with your children and start to do some ear training - everything is easier to absorb when you're younger, and it will pay off in the long run if they decide to go with it.

This is coming from my mother, a working musician who has perfect pitch. She has worked in orchestras, churches, and school music programs (normally elementary age and under) all her life.

[rduckwor]

I've got it or at least pretty close. The way it works for me is that I can compare a "heard" pitch to a given "remembered" pitch in my mind and usually tell what the "heard" note is.

I've been playing bass so long now that I generally can hear a line and usually play it the first or second attempt typically in the right key. That's not perfect pitch, just pattern recognition and recall.

I have no idea whether you can learn it. I do feel that it of limited use to musicians without additional training. Savants can listen and play back many passages the first time, but that's more of an illness than any of us are likely to want to have to labor at our love of music.

As always, YMMV.

[Alvaro Martín Gómez A.]

From my experience, I can tell you that perfect pitch is something you born with, but it must be "unleashed" since maybe you don't know you have it. My guaranteed test to know if someone has perfect pitch is: Pick any song(s) you think you know so well and try to sing it in the same key as on the recording from sheer memory (I mean, without listening it prior to the test). After that, check with the recording if you actually were singing it in the same key, in which case it most likely means that you have perfect pitch since it's just about recognizing pitches from memory and now it's just a matter of learning some basic theory about intervals, scales and chords to know what you're doing. It will make you more confident with your ability.

I think you've seen so many times when a famous singer is interviewed on TV and the (most of the times) stupid blonde that conducts the interview asks him/her to sing a bit of his/her latest hit a cappella. I've hardly seen one that does it in the same key as recorded. It doesn't mean that they aren't good singers, of course, but just that they don't have perfect pitch, which BTW is a pretty useless asset from a practical standpoint. You feel like an X-Man or something like that and that may be cool, but fluent relative pitch skills is what any serious musician should attain since it's what really counts for understanding what's happening within any musical piece.

[Techmonkey]

I don't know if I have perfect pitch or not. I'm a terrible singer so I find it hard to hit pitches vocally anyway.

but I can play a song from ear with little difficulty...

and I can tune a guitar from scratch (as in, no strings at all)... and tune it up E-A-D-G-B-E perfectly without any reference note.

[Mark Wilson]

Originally Posted by Alvaro Martín Gómez A.

From my experience, I can tell you that perfect pitch is something you born with, but it must be "unleashed" since maybe you don't know you have it. My guaranteed test to know if someone has perfect pitch is: Pick any song(s) you think you know so well and try to sing it in the same key as on the recording from sheer memory (I mean, without listening it prior to the test). After that, check with the recording if you actually were singing it in the same key, in which case it most likely means that you have perfect pitch since it's just about recognizing pitches from memory and now it's just a matter of learning some basic theory about intervals, scales and chords to know what you're doing. It will make you more confident with your ability.

Alvaro, I'm going to have to disprove your test.
I don't have perfect pitch, but I do have perfect RELATIVE pitch.
The song Can't Buy Me Love - The Beatles I can sing, dead on, same key. There are a few others as well! But, I definitely don't have perfect pitch.

A girl in an Improv class here at school, didn't know she had perfect pitch.
The teacher told the class to write down the rhythm to the melody. And he played the melody, and this girl went up to the board to write out the rhythm. But, she mis-understood the question, and wrote the line, perfectly, in the correct key.

Quite amazing.

[Dave Muscato]

Techmonkey, if somebody plays a random note on the piano, can you identify it without a reference pitch (or without looking at the keyboard )? That's perfect pitch.

Tuning a guitar from slack without a reference pitch or a tuner is a huge sign of that, too.

There are many types of perfect pitch (which is not the same as relative pitch). Active means that you can sing any note on cue, without a reference (although this is somewhat biased, because singing is a skill which takes talent and practice and you can be a terrible singer but still have perfect pitch, just like you can be an excellent singer and not have perfect pitch).

Passive perfect pitch means that you can hear a note and name it instantly. Again, this requires some musical training, as far as the names of notes, etc.

Perfect pitch is often related to naming colors. You can't exactly describe what makes green look green in a way that other people would know what color you're talking about without a reference, but when you see green, you instantly know what color it is, without a reference. In my old band (when I was a guitarist), our bassist had perfect pitch. He could tell us what note our computers were humming in, what note the coffee grinder was making, even what key the lightsabers on Star Wars hum in (Darth Maul's is F, if you're wondering). He could also play any bassline by ear and said that he "discovered" that he had perfect pitch when he was assigned the task of transcribing some trombone parts in a music theory class and realized he did not his instrument to know what the notes were. However, he has told us numerous times that he doesn't believe it is something which can be learned, only "unlocked" if you already have it.

Being able to hear a song and play it without practicing it is not necessarily the sign for perfect pitch, as mentioned earlier in this thread, because once you know enough about bassline construction and song form, you can figure out how a song goes. Similarly, having perfect pitch doesn't mean you can remember long strings of notes in order, with the rhythms that go with them, without practice. It does mean that you can identify notes instantly, though.

Perfect pitch is *not* when you have some internal reference (for example, if you know your vocal range, and can sing a note to yourself, and identify a note based on its relation to the end of your vocal range). That is just using a reference pitch, even though it's internal.

Relative pitch is not the same as perfect pitch and even people with perfect pitch have to develop this skill, too. Relative pitch is knowing the quality of chords (major, minor, diminished, augmented, etc), and of course this doesn't mean you can automatically play anything you hear (if you don't know how to play guitar, even if you have perfect pitch, you can't listen to some bossa nova and automatically play all the chords!)...

Perfect pitch cannot be learned, but you can definitely improve your ear with a lot of practice, time, and dedication to your instrument. I have used those Ear Training Supercourses (the David Lucas Burge thing you see in magazines), and it does improve your ear, but it will not "give" you perfect pitch, only "unlock" it if you already have it. Basically what the course does is give you homework assignments that force you to listen very closely to pitches and spend a lot of time with your instrument. If you do this on your own, your ear will improve, with or without a course.

There is some evidence (see This Is Your Brain on Music by Daniel J. Levitin, available on Amazon) that we are all born with a primitive form of perfect pitch, which is developed in some of us and fades away in others. It does not necessarily correlate to early music training (piano lessons starting at age 3, for example).

Bottom line, you can improve your ear with practice, but you must be born with perfect pitch. Relative pitch and perfect pitch are different, and both require music training and practice before they will yield you anything on your instrument, anyway, just like anybody else.

[CrazyArcher]

^ I agree with what he said int he last paragraph

I've also heard that people having perfect pitch have more trouble with transposing music, since they recognize it as a series of set frequences and not intervals.

What do you think about perfrect time? How about those guys who can listen to a record and say that someone was 128th note late?

[Alvaro Martín Gómez A.]

Originally Posted by Mark Wilson

Alvaro, I'm going to have to disprove your test.
I don't have perfect pitch, but I do have perfect RELATIVE pitch.
The song Can't Buy Me Love - The Beatles I can sing, dead on, same key. There are a few others as well! But, I definitely don't have perfect pitch.

Well, of course I don't know how hard have you tried to discover that ability but anyway, from my ignorant perspective I'd say that you are a serious candidate, Mark. Can you accurately recall from memory the pitch of your bass' open G string or a regular E Major chord from an acoustic guitar in standard tuning, for instance?

[Verticos]

Well, maybe i can shed some light on this topic. I do indeed have perfect pitch. To me, i can basically remember any pitch (not just one song or one pitch, all of them). Basically my mind finds a pitch I know for sure (C is the easiest), and then finds perfect intervals from there. If it is an odd note like an Ab, I go from a close note and count up or down by half steps. It is even easier when someone already plays the note and I only have to Identify it. I can just remember pitches like others can remember anything else. Up until 8th grade, I had no idea that this was not a normal ability as I have been able to do this since I was around 6.

From what I've heard, If you want to train your ear, the easiest thing to do is sit down at a piano and think about or sing a note (start with something easy, like open bass strings or a standard C), then check this note with the piano. Seriously, it is all about memory.

Hope this helps and I didn't sound too vain.

-Steve

[JimmyM]

Actually, it's not all about memory. Relative pitch is, but perfect pitch means you don't have to go through finding a reference note in your head and adding up the intervals. Don't get me wrong, it's still very impressive, but it's not perfect pitch.

BTW, I recently read a study that says perfect pitch deteriorates over time. I believe it. I have trouble deciphering C#, D and D# now, and one night when I was really tired, I even mistook E for F. Never used to make those kind of mistakes, so I believe I'm gradually losing my perfect pitch ability.

[Mark Wilson]

Originally Posted by Alvaro Martín Gómez A.

Well, of course I don't know how hard have you tried to discover that ability but anyway, from my ignorant perspective I'd say that you are a serious candidate, Mark. Can you accurately recall from memory the pitch of your bass' open G string or a regular E Major chord from an acoustic guitar in standard tuning, for instance?

Well, I've got the ability to tell whether it's a black note, or white note on the keyboard.

Sounds that I've very familiar with (like the open strings on a bass) I can recall from memory, and yes. I can name open chords on a guitar.

[Verticos]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

Actually, it's not all about memory. Relative pitch is, but perfect pitch means you don't have to go through finding a reference note in your head and adding up the intervals. Don't get me wrong, it's still very impressive, but it's not perfect pitch.

BTW, I recently read a study that says perfect pitch deteriorates over time. I believe it. I have trouble deciphering C#, D and D# now, and one night when I was really tired, I even mistook E for F. Never used to make those kind of mistakes, so I believe I'm gradually losing my perfect pitch ability.

So i guess my point is you can have perfect pitch, but it is usually one a select few notes. I know orchestral people who can tune to a perfect A440 by ear. So i guess i can do ABCDEFG, but not any accidentals without counting.

[doctorjazz]

I wouldn't exactly go putting perfect pitch on a pedestal. I'd much rather have perfect relative pitch than perfect absolute pitch.

Also, it must be noted that a lot of people with perfect pitch don't have it relative to A440, so they find a lot of music unenjoyable because it sounds out of tune to them. And then there are issues with pitch gradually changing over time, etc.

[JimmyM]

I think people with perfect pitch who act bugged about out-of-tuneness are just playing up the diva. It's not like it's some secret kryptonite weapon that stuns your brain functions. Out-of-tuneness only bugs me when I do it. Which is OK because it's my job to be in tune. But it never bugged me to listen to it. One of my favorite bands is the White Stripes, for example.

[PatTheAnchor]

It's complicated if there are different instruments in a different tuning. One person might think, "You're too low" but you might think otherwise because he might be tuning differently.

Exactly what doctorjazz said. I don't feel comfortable tuning to 440, which is our orchestra's tuning pitch, but I somehow like 438 better, because it is a bit lower, and seems suitable to me.

You might not agree with someone else's pitch because what they think is right, may not be for you because their instruments come in different octaves and pitches, so that's a flaw in telling whether or not you have perfect pitch.

Hope this helps,
Pat

[AZNBassist]

Hmmm...if perfect pitch is defined as:

1. Being able to sing any given note without a reference pitch
2. Being able to name any note without looking

Then I'd say that I think I have perfect pitch. However, I was not born with it, it came with years of hard work. The way I went about "learning" it was banging my head against a piano, I would use a pencil or a drumstick, play random notes, and then try to guess them.

So I'd say that perfect pitch IS something that you can learn, it just takes time.

However, I still need to practice this skill on a daily basis, because it does deteriorate (I'm not sure if this happens to people who are born with it), also, hearing intervals and chords seems to be another skill which this doesn't seem to help cover. And last but not least, it's only marginally helpful, as it doesn't help my phrasing, time, groove, sight-reading, etc.

[DocBop]

There are people born with perfect pitch, and others who learn it. The question is what are they doing with it. I would say relative pitch is what most end up learning and use, even those with perfect pitch. From what I understand those with perfect pitch can id a note to start with, but are using relative pitch skills for figuring out melodies and lines.