Play in a band only knowing tab

[machine454]

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I"ve been playing for 3 years , 1 hour a day 4-5 days a week.
My music theroy is limited I would like to play in a band and play rock and heavy metal . How much music theroy should I learn, currently starting to learn I,IV,V,VIII major and II,III,VI,VII minor. I guess I should learn some basic scales for fill. I know about 25 songs by tab. I did my first gig a couple weeks ago and I found I would get lost in the song and its not fun. The rhythm and timimg can be alittle tricky , I have played with a drum machine from day one. Where do people get the idea bass is so easy , anybody had it easy would have been that annoying lead guitar player .

[MalcolmAmos]

Yes, tab is going to be a problem. Most everyone I'm around play from fake chord. Metal is going to be roots perhaps roots and fives, forget about playing scales as a bass line. Leave scales to the solo instruments.

Now scales are necessary and we all have to run our scales - to get our fingers doing what fingers need to be doing and our ear knowing the good notes from the bad notes. So warm up with scales, but playing chord tones and making your bass lines from the chord's notes is where you really need to be spending your time. Of course IMHO.

Don't worry with filling your bass line at this point, until you know more - less is more. The beat into a groove is your first responsibility. If that is R-R-R-R or R-5-8-5 or R-b3-5-b7 depends on the song and what will move into a groove.

I play Country and Country is R-5-R-5 with chromatic runs to the next chord. Find out what your band expects and give them that.

Here is some "stuff" that may help.

Notes on the fretboard, cheaters?

http://www.guitarzonline.com/free-be...ongs-to-learn/
Rhythm guitar will strum the chord we play the chord's notes one note at a time. How many of the chord's notes? As many as will be needed for the groove. It'll come just start.

http://www.smithfowler.org/music/Chord_Formulas.htm

http://www.studybass.com/

Have fun.

[machine454]

thanks for the tip , I'm not in a band yet because my first gig didn't go so well . Your right ,tab is going to be a problem . Just to let you know its just been me and a drum machine and bass tab for 3 years . One thing that was nice about tab was I picked songs that where all over the neck .

[Babaghanoush]

Originally Posted by machine454

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I"ve been playing for 3 years , 1 hour a day 4-5 days a week.
My music theroy is limited I would like to play in a band and play rock and heavy metal . How much music theroy should I learn, currently starting to learn I,IV,V,VIII major and II,III,VI,VII minor. I guess I should learn some basic scales for fill. I know about 25 songs by tab. I did my first gig a couple weeks ago and I found I would get lost in the song and its not fun. The rhythm and timimg can be alittle tricky , I have played with a drum machine from day one. Where do people get the idea bass is so easy , anybody had it easy would have been that annoying lead guitar player .

By now I'm sure you've got a good many standard finger patterns memorized and may not even know it. Get the basics of scale/chord theory in your head as in understanding roots, fifths, etc. Once you have this, investigate what note of the chord you're actually playing when you play these familiar patterns. Start specifically with the roots and 5ths. Once you know where all of these are for any chord, add the 3rds and 7ths to your brain. Eventually you'll develop a theory vocabulary and an understand of what that tab has been telling you and you'll start to see music in phrases and progressions rather than note by note. You could try to plow through a music theory book but you probably won't be able to apply the knowledge for a while and why put the bass down? The way I suggest is a little more brute force but very practical and much more immediately useful.

I agree with MalcolmAmos that running scales up and down the fretboard is not the best way to jump into music theory but understanding how scales and chords are built is essential.

[dmrogers]

I agree with the suggestions above. Learning chords and chord structure is essential. I started out on guitar, and my dad insisted that I learn chords, which meant the keys and all the chords in that key. I am so thankful that I learned that way. Knowing that a major triad is made up of the 1 - 3 - 5 and that you flat the third for a minor might seem trivial, but it is actually invaluable information.

It is important to practice scales, but I don't mean just running the notes up and down the fretboard. Understanding what a scale is and the relationship between scales and chords is very important.

Check out the wonderful resources here on this forum. Also check out studybass.com.

I would also print out some chord charts for some solid songs and then find them on youtube and start practicing. It doesn't have to be a difficult song or even a song you really like. Just a solid song with enough chord changes in it to give you a solid foundation to practice on.

Good luck!

[IbanezBass69]

I only know tab, heck, the whole band only knows tab. But, that said, I really would find it easier to write bass lines if I knew theory. Learn even the basics like many have said here, and you will be well on your way to being a rock star.

[machine454]

thanks for the help everyone , when I got lost in the song it made me feel like a goof and its not a nice feeling. Hey I'm just glad there wasn"t any hot chicks watching. I'm hearing alot of good stuff about study bass.com .

[dogbass]

When you post to a musicians forum, you will hear alot of suggestions about what is "essential" to learn. And yet, great music has been made by people who never knew a lick of theory. Learn because you want to learn and play because you enjoy playing. Support the song in whatever way works for you and you've got it ! It is as simple as you want it to be or as complex as you need it to be.

[Fendbassfan]

Originally Posted by machine454

I guess I should learn some basic scales for fill.

You don't play scales for fills. You learn scales to know what notes fit the chord you are on, and passing notes, and you mix the notes up according to your own interpretation.

[Rebecca]

I'm pretty new, too, and also on the road to playing out. My advice:

1) Have chord charts be your main entrance into a song - that'll pretty much solve your "getting lost in the song" problem and helps you do one of the main bass jobs, which is mark the chord changes.

2) Learn how to make simple basslines from a chord. That means knowing the notes in the chord and how to connect things. I guess that's theory, but I think of it as the equivalent of a guitarist knowing how to strum a chord - its the bare minimum to actually be playing.

3) instead of playing to a drum machine, play to recordings of the song. You may start by just playing the roots in rhythm, but you'll naturally start expanding. Basically, focus on playing the music, not the notes. If you play the music, the notes will take care of themselves. That said, after you can play a song, it never hurts to look at an intereting tab for more ideas.

4) look around for ways to play with people live. There are places that offer ensemble classes for all genres and ages, there are cl people looking for other beginners to play with.

[recreate.me]

I learned to play bass AFTER i started the band I am currently in (about 2 years now), and I had no musical knowledge at all.

The key i think is hearing the music, especially with original stuff. Learn your major scales and you can get away with running roots and 5s along with your rhythm guitarist.

Find someone who can play guitar with you and try to just follow along with them, that will help you learn your groove to that song, which should be just accenting the guitar as much or little as you like.

Things like that you can't learn from drum machines, or playing with recordings, unless you try original basslines which is hard at first.

I say you don't even need tabs in a band, unless your playing covers... It depends on what type of band.

[MalcolmAmos]

One more thing ...... If the melody line (tune) and the bass line share like notes harmonization takes place. If we harmonize the melody line with the bass line both of those lines will sound good with each other.

Easy way to do this is to realize that someone has already taken all that into account, with fake chord sheet music, and figured out which chord will harmonize the melody being played at this moment in the song - all we have to do is make sure our bass line has some of the chord's notes in it - if we do our bass line will harmonize with those other lines as well. Using fake chord sheet music someone has already figured out which chord wants to be with the music so..... Grab some fake chord sheet music and play some generic bass lines based upon the chords shown in the fake chord sheet music. Yes it's that simple, hundreds of songs await you.

What are generic bass lines? Bass lines that have notes in them that will go with a lot of chords. Why is that important? Well if we can have some generic bass lines in muscle memory and know that a specific generic bass line will work with the next chord coming up we do not have to give it a lot of thought and we can concentrate on building our groove instead of worrying about what to play over the next chord. For example:

Every chord is going to have a root - we all know that playing roots and changing roots as the song moves on to new chords is an acceptable way to play our bass - right at first. What about adding the 8 for some color? The 8 is just THE root in another octave so R-8-R-8 is a generic bass line that will work with any chord.

All chords will have a 5, except for the diminished chord, and how many of those do you run into? So R-5-8-5 is a generic bass line that will play a lot of bass. If you did run into a diminished chord just flat the 5, i.e. R-b5-8-b5.

Harmonizing a melody line with chords that have some of the melody notes in their makeup and then having our bass line have some of the chord's notes in our bass line insures that everyone is in harmony. We try and have like notes in play - one like note will get harmonization, i.e. that is why roots just by themselves work. Now two like notes are a little better, i.e. that is why roots and fives work so well. Three notes harmonizing is not necessarily better, it's gravy, you already have reached harmonization, do you need some gravy, if so use as many of the chord's notes as you think best. If you already have enough gravy don't bother.

Others mentioned the 3 and 7. Both the 3 and 7 are not generic, however, they are predictable. Major chords will have a 3 and minor chords will have a b3. So R-3-5-X is a generic bass line for any major chord and R-b3-5-X is a generic bass line for any minor chord.

The 7 is generic for maj7 chords and the b7 is generic for the dominant seventh and the minor seventh chords.

So roots, fives, eights and the correct 3 and 7 will also play a lot of bass.

The 6 is neutral and will fit just about anywhere. I like it with major chords as it's found in the major pentatonic scale, i.e. R-3-5-6 has a nice sound to it.

The 2 and 4 make good passing notes, just do not linger on them or stop on them, keep them passing.

OK that is bass line intervals in a nut shell. Whoa, how about the "X".

If we let "X" lead to the next chord we then have a true walking bass line. Couple of ways to do that one hard and one easy.

Hard - let X be the Dominant Note of the next chord, i.e. if the next chord is the D major chord - what is the dominant note in the D Major chord? The 5th or A. So if you let X be the A note that A note will pull you into the next D chord - as dominants like to move to their tonic root.

Easy - Let X be a chromatic note leading to the next chord's root. Next chord is a D major chord let X be the C#. That C# - D chromatic run will move you right into the D chord. Country likes this so much they will leave early and miss the next root by 4 frets, then walk one fret at a time up or down to the targeted next root note. Yep, target the next root then miss it - and walk to it. Be on the next root in time for the next chord change. Simple to do, just takes some timing. Try it, I think you will like it. You do not have to leave 4 beats early, try just one or two, just be on the next root for the chord change.

Here is what Scott has to say about "X" ..... http://scottsbasslessons.com/free-vi...-crash-course/

That and then how much of that is needed for the groove - and how much will just be gravy - should keep you busy for a couple of months. Don't expect you to remember all that, but, it would be a good idea to copy or bookmark it and keep it handy.

Have fun.

[machine454]

Originally Posted by MalcolmAmos

Yes, tab is going to be a problem. Most everyone I'm around play from fake chord. Metal is going to be roots perhaps roots and fives, forget about playing scales as a bass line. Leave scales to the solo instruments.

Now scales are necessary and we all have to run our scales - to get our fingers doing what fingers need to be doing and our ear knowing the good notes from the bad notes. So warm up with scales, but playing chord tones and making your bass lines from the chord's notes is where you really need to be spending your time. Of course IMHO.

Don't worry with filling your bass line at this point, until you know more - less is more. The beat into a groove is your first responsibility. If that is R-R-R-R or R-5-8-5 or R-b3-5-b7 depends on the song and what will move into a groove.

I play Country and Country is R-5-R-5 with chromatic runs to the next chord. Find out what your band expects and give them that.

Here is some "stuff" that may help.

Notes on the fretboard, cheaters?

Easy Guitar Songs To Learn
Rhythm guitar will strum the chord we play the chord's notes one note at a time. How many of the chord's notes? As many as will be needed for the groove. It'll come just start.

Chord Formulas

Online Bass Lessons at StudyBass.com

Have fun.

Thanks , I've been reading theroy on studybass , how scales are created, and chords ,seems interesting

[Billnc]

Your biggest problem appeared to be 'getting lost'. Learn to hear all the sections of a tune. Think of these and learn them as blocks. There are usually two or three sections max.
Tabs are horrible regarding song structure.

[machine454]

Originally Posted by Billnc

Your biggest problem appeared to be 'getting lost'. Learn to hear all the sections of a tune. Think of these and learn them as blocks. There are usually two or three sections max.
Tabs are horrible regarding song structure.

I agree , tab just got me rolling in the beginining now its time for some good theroy . Yes no song structure with tab. Oh well I gave my memory a good exercise program, remembering 30 songs by tab .

[the_hook]

Here’s my experience:

I've been in a band I formed (with guitar and drums) for a few months. I mostly learn from tab, but I learned bass clef notes and I can now read sheet music and understand note types (quarter, eighth, etc.). If I can only find tab I write it out on music sheets together with the tab as I need to see both.

My observation after playing with these more experienced guys for a few months is that music theory (scales, modes, chords) isn’t necessary if all you’re doing is learning songs that already exist, provided you can find the music (tab or sheet), or have the ability to learn by ear. The only time I find myself limited is if the guitar player just improvises some tune, and without knowing the Key and chords, I haven’t got a clue how to jump in.

We play mostly Rush (more so the longer Prog songs like Xanadu, etc.) and my approach is to see how the song is structured on paper, where things repeat, and where parts change completely.

After a number of runs through the song (slowly) I play the actual song to see how well I can match the song tempo and feel, how much I can remember without looking at the music sheets, but also it helps form a picture in my mind of each separate section of the song, and where the repetitive parts come up.

I recently learned Roundabout (Yes) and I can see each distinct part of the song in my head, what cues the guitar and drums give me when there's a shift in the song, etc. The notes/tab/finger patterns all fall into place there as well.

When I play live with the band I have it all memorized because then there's the push/pull of playing with other people, tempo fluctuations, mistakes, etc., just far too many things going on to not have the song memorized.

Another thing I did recently is ask my more experienced guitar player to create a few new songs, but send me the chords for the songs. I then figured out which notes are in each chord (C7, G major, etc.) and built bass lines for each song.

It worked really well, and the songs took on a different shape than he envisioned once I laid down the bass lines and our drummer built his drum parts (mostly from my bass lines).

[MalcolmAmos]

Originally Posted by the_hook

........Another thing I did recently is ask my more experienced guitar player to create a few new songs, but send me the chords for the songs. I then figured out which notes are in each chord (C7, G major, etc.) and built bass lines for each song.

It worked really well, and the songs took on a different shape than he envisioned once I laid down the bass lines and our drummer built his drum parts (mostly from my bass lines).

YES! Having the chord progressions and then hitting the chord changes makes it all a piece of cake.

Good luck.

[travep]

I know you have an interest in heavy music but I might make the suggestion of making some practice time for other genres. I heard it said once that one might play rock but practice jazz. I learned on the Beatles which gave me a pretty good sense for basic arpeggios. The jazz stuff will allow you to explore the rest of the scale as well as some extended chords and different voicings.

You might also play with a metronome some as well as just the drum machine. This will allow you to work on subdividing the beats internally which would be pretty important for the metal you want to play. It's critical to lock in with the drummer but it's also really important to make your own time.

I got a lot of benefit from taking lessons too. If money is an issue, try taking for a few months and then laying off for a while and working on what you learned. This will focus your practicing and you'll move forward quicker.

Good luck!

[the_hook]

Originally Posted by MalcolmAmos

YES! Having the chord progressions and then hitting the chord changes makes it all a piece of cake.

Good luck.

It was way easier to create the bass lines working off the guitar parts once I knew what notes I could work with. The rest came down to how I wanted to move it rhythmically, where to punctuate my parts, or lay into a repetitive groove while he soloed, etc.

On one song I decided to lay the beat back so that it feels like a lumbering walk with heavy feet (would it be called a Shuffle?), and the drums did the same. But at points the drummer would punctuate parts by just stopping, I'd continue to play in the silence, then he'd jump back in and lay it back again.

This stuff wasn't as obvious when I played pre-written songs, but really stood out to me with something completely new.

[machine454]

Originally Posted by dogbass

When you post to a musicians forum, you will hear alot of suggestions about what is "essential" to learn. And yet, great music has been made by people who never knew a lick of theory. Learn because you want to learn and play because you enjoy playing. Support the song in whatever way works for you and you've got it ! It is as simple as you want it to be or as complex as you need it to be.

good point , there are alot of music theory experts out there, went to all kinds of schools , but couldn't write a top 100 hit single. Hey look at Abba for example not that I liked the band. But nobody in the band new any music theroy.