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  #1  
Old 03-13-2011, 09:08 PM
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Playing along with records and general tips

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I'm creeping up on a year of teaching myself to play bass. I have played the drums for over 15 years and have a little piano experience. I understand basic theory and have a solid rhythmic and time, I can play the basic scales, have a few modes under my belt and can play a handful of simple blues forms with some authority. I understand scale relationships on the fretboard but still struggle with the names of each fret. It's coming, but I haven't put a lot of focus into learning them, so it is coming slowly.

I know that I need to shift my focus from mechanics and into actually playing music. I have looked up the chord changes of some songs I would like to learn and have found the process to be a bit more frustrating than I thought.

Questions for the forum:

When playing with records, do you attempt to learn the song note for note, or do you simply learn the changes and find your own way through the song?

Do you use tabs/chord charts on the internet to give yourself a head start? Is there a greater benefit to pecking it out on the fretboard without a chord guide?

Is there a reliable database of chords/tab to reference? I have found several to be grossly inaccurate/incorrect.

What tips/general advice do you have for an experienced musician that has some very basic bass skills but is looking to quickly step it up?

Thank you, much appreciated.
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Old 03-13-2011, 09:31 PM
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I was in the exact same place as you a year ago. Here's what I did:

1. To learn how to write basslines:
I was really bad at figuring out the whole progression unless it was really easy, so I usually googled up chord charts. Then, I'd play along, not trying to hit just what the recorded bass did, but do something in the right feel. Like, if this was my gig, what would I play? Over time, I've gotten better at hearing the chord progression, so I only go for a chart if I can't pick it up after a pass or two. Most of these are ones I play live with other people, too. I like to learn them first with a recording when possible.

2. To expand my ideas of what I can do:
I seek out particularly interesting or iconic basslines and find tab, or preferably, notation and learn those to play along. I'll have one technically challenging line I'm working on along with a mess of other songs I just play with for fun.
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Old 03-13-2011, 09:51 PM
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I came from the guitar world. I had been given work tapes (1991) since my first band. I chart out the changes first, that'll get me through the tune, then gradually fill in the bass line and if appropriate work out my own interpretation.

I have never messed with tab at all.
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  #4  
Old 03-13-2011, 10:48 PM
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I'm in the same situation as you, long time drummer, new bass player. When I play with recordings I just noodle. See what sticks and what doesn't. When I'm not playing with recordings I study my theory, chord tones, scales, reading. When I'm actually playing, I'll ask for the key and just stick to roots and insert the occasional line where I think it merits it. Seems to work pretty good for me and I haven't had any complaints so far.
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Old 03-14-2011, 05:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holmes View Post
Questions for the forum:

When playing with records, do you attempt to learn the song note for note, or do you simply learn the changes and find your own way through the song?
I'm not interested in note for note I would like to hit the chord changes, however.

Quote:
Do you use tabs/chord charts on the Internet to give yourself a head start? Is there a greater benefit to pecking it out on the fretboard without a chord guide?
I only use tabs to see how to do specific things. I do not rely upon tabs for what to play. Chord charts or picking it out - jamming. I do both. More later on in this post.
Quote:
Is there a reliable database of chords/tab to reference? I have found several to be grossly inaccurate/incorrect.
There are several fake chord data bases which I'm sure you have already found. How accurate is anyone guess as all of the songs have been put there by people like you and I. All of them are suspect, however, all of them are close enough IMHO to start with. Accept them for what they are - some one's interpretation of what he/she thinks is correct.

Quote:
What tips/general advice do you have for an experienced musician that has some very basic bass skills but is looking to quickly step it up? Thank you, much appreciated.
What rules my bass lines are chord tones when playing accompaniment, scales when playing a lead solo, i.e. chord tones when playing the bass in it's accepted role as an accompaniment instrument and then scales when you switch over to melodic or playing the tune. Scales to limber up with. Scales to help know where the notes are, modes not unless you are getting lead breaks. The bands I play with the pedal steel and electric guitar get the lead breaks so chord tones is pretty much what I do. How many lead breaks are you expecting? The answer to that question points to what you need to be concentrating on......

Get your favorite generic bass lines into muscle memory so ---- when you see a chord you know that:
Roots, fives, and eights will work with most chords. Yes you have to allow for the diminished chord, that b5.
R-5-R-5 is a little better.
R-5-8-5 or any combination of those three notes will play a lot of bass.
The correct 3 is always a smart thing to throw into a bass line. 3 for major chords and b3 for minor chords.
The correct 7 is next on the list. 7 for maj7 chords and b7 for dominant sevenths and minor sevenths.
The 6 is neutral, however, works best for color with major chords.
The 2 and 4 make good passing notes. Passing notes - don't linger on them or stop on them.
Get several favorite chord tone bass lines into muscle memory. Then start playing from fake chord progressions - see if you can use those bass line with the song, i.e. can you use R-3-5-b7 before the music moves on to something else - can you keep up. If not use something else, or practice more.

Play with someone - your CD's or other musicians. If CD's or the radio be able to pick out the key. How? Run your G string one fret at a time. When what you are doing on the G string and what is happening on the CD come in sync - sound good together - you've found the tonal center, thus the key. Just look down and see what note that happened on. That's your key.

Next is listen for the chord changes. Which ones. Well that depends on the music you are listing to. If it is Pop, Rock or Country you can assume it will be major and will use the I IV V I chord progression. Why? Those three chords will contain every note in the tonic scale so if the melody stays in that scale those three chords are all you need to harmonize every note in that song. Yep, it's that simple. If the one you chose, is not harmonizing you have a 50% chance one of the other two will. Pick one.

I assume until proven wrong - by listening - that the progression will start with the I chord and right at the end of the first line of the verse will change to the IV chord. The second line will continue with the IV chord and near the end of the second line the chord will move to the V or V7 chord - then quickly resolve to the I chord by the end of the 2nd line of the verse. Why? It's the ole rest (I), tension (IV), climax (V7), resolve and return to rest (I) journey music takes.

The 3rd and 4th line will continue with the same I IV V I progression - and that will continue through out the rest of the song. Is that exact? No, but, it will be close enough for you to make your own first draft fake chord sheet music for that specific song, i.e give you a starting point. Now play and sing the song - moving the chords to fit over the right lyric word. A little to the left or right normally works. Why sing the song? Melody notes - the tune - and the chords under them should share like notes. If they share like notes they harmonize each other - sound good together. Singing the song helps you hear if the chords you assumed were correct are correct. Flesh out your first draft and put your pencil copy of the fake chord you have come up with into a gig book. Before you know it you will have hundreds of songs in your gig book just waiting on you.

Go have fun.

Last edited by MalcolmAmos : 03-14-2011 at 12:51 PM.
  #6  
Old 03-14-2011, 07:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holmes View Post
Questions for the forum:

When playing with records, do you attempt to learn the song note for note, or do you simply learn the changes and find your own way through the song?
Nope, not deliberately. Sometimes finding your way through a song does make you play it almost note for note. Some (most) bass lines at least for the music I play pretty much follow the chord changes.

Quote:
Do you use tabs/chord charts on the internet to give yourself a head start? Is there a greater benefit to pecking it out on the fretboard without a chord guide?
Chord sheets and standard sheet music because I play guitar primarily. Once you know the chords and progressions it's easy enough to make a workable bass line.

I asked kind of the same questions last week and got good answers that were pretty much along the lines of what I said above, and what the others here are saying.
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  #7  
Old 03-14-2011, 10:46 AM
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I'm where you are minus the drums. I would say to listen to the song, and find a guitar tab of it (usually more common) from the guitar tab you see whats being played and that let's you add in your own chord tones and roots, as well as make the changes.
Chances are what you write will be similar to what's recorded and it will help point you towards what the writer did because that's probably how they figured out what to play.
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Old 03-14-2011, 11:46 PM
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Thanks to all who replied!
  #9  
Old 03-15-2011, 12:16 AM
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How much time do you have? If I am trying to learn a song very quickly, I just go for chord changes. If I have a bit more time, I also learn the key licks.

If I have even more time, I learn parts of the song note for note to get a real feel for the song. If I have lots of time, and I like the song, I learn it note for note. I don't think I play any song live note for note though.
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