Playing Bass for Church

[kunji09]

Hey yall, so i have been playing bass at church for a few years now, and ive always played the very basic that was asked of me. We have no set list, and the WL picks whatever song and goes with it next, so I was taught to see the chords he played and play the note that corresponds. He plays G chord, i play G note. I am looking to advance past this and be a lot better, and have better sounding songs. I honestly have no idea what else to do though. any help would be appreciated!

[Geetarstar]

As a former church musician myself, what I have done is find different artists/versions of the songs you play at church and learn them to get a different perspective. Putting church stuff aside play along to your favorite songs.

[funkybass]

I play at my church. Roots, 5ths, octaves rule that type of music IMO. I'll also add 3rds and 6ths and chromatics. Dont be afraid to experiment at practice.

[Jhengsman]

Have you visited The Talkbass P&W Club ?

Then you have to depend upon basic skills. Since you don't even have a lyric/chord sheet you need to learn at least the melody of the songs your leader is likely to call up so you can feel the changes. You need to learn those common chord progressions so you have an ideal where he might go instead of trying to watch the left hand of a keyboard(guitar?) player

From there it is the steps, 5ths and other chord tones which will work. Walking a bassline and lead to chord changes.

Yours seems to be the situation those electronic sheet readers could help with. We are almost at the point were we can call up our entire libraries on the fly and get some sort of chart if a leader just calls out a random tune and starts on the intro.

Originally Posted by Geetarstar

As a former church musician myself, what I have done is find different artists/versions of the songs you play at church and learn them to get a different perspective. Putting church stuff aside play along to your favorite songs.

If I have time that is what I do, I especially like to use the singer/guitar solo performances so that I can try different basslines against it. When I get to rehearsal we then figure out if it will work in a band setting but roots as the chord changes is alway home base.

[diehard70]

First off...welcome to TB, Kunji. This is a great place to ask questions and gain input from some experienced players.

I have been playing in our church for about 9 months, I never get anything more than a chord sheet written out for the guitarist and the lyrics. We are a 3 pc. (acoustic guitar, drums/perc. and me (we will often have a sit-in on keys/piano or guitar/mandolin) so I have the responsibility to fill a lot of space w/o overplaying. Get to know your fretboard. I will usually arpeggio/outline the chord the guitarist is playing, to give some movement to the song and to walk into the new change. I played trumpet for 30+ years and improvising on the bass is way simpler because of the "shapes" of the chords, IME. Since our new WL took over, we now have 50+ new songs to play and I rarely get to "flesh out" a part before we play it, so I have learned to take all the notes of the chord and play it in many different ways to best serve the song and to give it movement. Don't be afraid to play something wrong in rehearsal. You can take an idea from it and "woodshed" it for your live performance later.

This is very basic stuff, but will fill a lot of silence in the song w/o stepping into someone else's sonic space. Remember to practice the NOTES and not just the SHAPES (again...knowing your fretboard). It's a good starting point, at the least.

Hope this helps - Dann

[MalcolmAmos]

Originally Posted by funkybass

I play at my church. Roots, 5ths, octaves rule that type of music IMO. I'll also add 3rds and 6ths and chromatics. Don't be afraid to experiment at practice.

Praise music of course is different than Gospel music, however, I looked in our church hymnal and found that the bass line is roots, fives and octaves with a few 3's and 6's thrown in. So.............

I'm not sure you are receiving chord charts that list the chord progression, but, I bet the rhythm guitar has them. Get a copy and add some 5', 8's, 3's and 6's.

Probably best to do this in practice until you can take it public, but, don't shy away from those notes.

Major Scale Box. 

G|---2---|-------|---3---|---4---| 1st string
D|---6---|-------|---7---|---8---|
A|---3---|---4---|-------|---5---|
E|-------|---R---|-------|---2---|4th string
The 3 is always up one string and back one fret.
The 6 is always over the 3.
The 5 is always up a string and over two frets from the root.
Place the root and the other intervals are always in the same
spot waiting for you.

R-3-5-8 is safe over any major chord.
So is R-3-5-6. I love that sound.
R-b3-5-b3 is safe over any minor chord.
And R-b3-5-b7 is safe over any minor seventh chord.
R-3-5-b7 is safe over any dominant seventh chord, aka C7.
R-3-5-7 is safe over any maj7 chord, aka Cmaj7.

Give it a try, put those into muscle memory and then see if you can add some of them into your accompaniment.

[diehard70]

Great example, Malcolm. Thanks.

Like I said...a great place to gain input from experienced players

[kunji09]

alright thanks for the tips guys, and im kinda just gonna try and respond to it all at once here, im looking at lead guitar, we have no rhythm guitar, lead (acoustic) keys, bass, drums and singers

i have no idea how even what 5ths or 3rds or chromatic are, totally new to all this pretty much, and the chart with all that info looks way cool, but still no idea what it is or what to do, sorry if this is frustrating, but im pretty much learning all from scratch other then root notes cuz thats what i play, and i kinda know how to use higher octaves as a mix up from root notes, but i play the same root notes just an octave higher. thanks again yall!

[Stumbo]

A few links you may want to check out:
~Urban Gospel
Examples of songs
Gospel/PW basses/rigs/strings
Learning

Also, check out the link below for some great TB info that may help you out with bass/general music info.

Good luck!

[Jhengsman]

Originally Posted by kunji09

alright thanks for the tips guys, and im kinda just gonna try and respond to it all at once here, im looking at lead guitar, we have no rhythm guitar, lead (acoustic) keys, bass, drums and singers

i have no idea how even what 5ths or 3rds or chromatic are, totally new to all this pretty much, and the chart with all that info looks way cool, but still no idea what it is or what to do, sorry if this is frustrating, but im pretty much learning all from scratch other then root notes cuz thats what i play, and i kinda know how to use higher octaves as a mix up from root notes, but i play the same root notes just an octave higher. thanks again yall!

I will suggest that you post one of your songs and what you played during it. Maybe some of us have played it and we can use it as a sample of the baby steps taken to fill as bassline. you have already found the root and octave

Meanwhile you need to be going through some instruction method. a book, website, Youtube instructor, video or teacher. A process started by coming here. Take the Bass Player 101 stuff and apply it to situations as appropiate.

[MalcolmAmos]

You said:

have no idea how even what 5ths or 3rds or chromatic are, totally new to all this pretty much, and the chart with all that info looks way cool, but still no idea what it is or what to do, sorry if this is frustrating, but im pretty much learning all from scratch other then root notes cuz thats what i play, and i kinda know how to use higher octaves as a mix up from root notes, but i play the same root notes just an octave higher. thanks again yall!

That'll get the job done. The 8 note is the root note one octave higher. So playing R-R-8-8 and changing roots as the chord progression moves to new chords is a start. When that gets easy add the 5, (R-5-8-5) for a little more interest (look where the 5 is, yep right below the 8). Now that will play a lot of bass, probably take you where you want for the next year.

When that gets easy throw in the correct 3 (R-3-5-8) for major chords (C) or b3 (R-b3-5-8) for minor chords (Cm). You get the b3 by moving back toward the nut (tuning knobs) one fret - a #5 would be telling you to move one fret toward the sound hole. You'll need to look at this for the light bulb to come on. http://www.smithfowler.org/music/Chord_Formulas.htm

Take it one step at a time you eat this elephant one bite at a time. See if the keys will have the chord names, is he playing from fake chord or basic piano sheet music. If piano sheet music, I bet he could tell you what chords are being played and when in the song. With out that - good luck. You gotta know that to change chords when the song moves on to new chords.

Here is a plate full of stuff that may help. Eat as much as you need to satisfy your hunger, but, not enough to make you sick.

Take the box pattern and place the root note (name of the chord / name of the scale) on your fretboard and the intervals of that pattern are always in the same place - on your fretboard. So if you want something else besides the root note, like R-3-5-3 you can find where those notes are.

Bass Patterns based upon the Major Scale box.

Major Scale Box. 

G|---2---|-------|---3---|---4---| 1st string
D|---6---|-------|---7---|---8---|
A|---3---|---4---|-------|---5---|
E|-------|---R---|-------|---2---|4th string

Place the root (R) on the C note 4th string 8th fret and the C major scale await you.
Place the root (R) on the C note and play the R-3-5 and you have just played the notes of the C major chord aka C arpeggio. Chord progression for this song is G-C-D. Place your box root on a G on the 3rd string. Where is your C? Where is the D? The next song's progression is C-F-G. Place your box root on a C on the 3rd string. Where is your F? Where is your G? Yep, piece of cake.

The rest of the story - more than you need right now, but good information to have. Think of it as stuff in the freezer that you could get if you need it.

Basic Chords
Major Triad = R-3-5
Minor Triad = R-b3-5
Diminished Chord = R-b3-b5

7th Chords
Maj7 = R-3-5-7
Minor 7 = R-b3-5-b7
Dominant 7 = R-3-5-b7
½ diminished = R-b3-b5-b7
Full diminished = R-b3-b5-bb7 Harmonic minor and melodic minor will use the full bb7

Scales
Major Pentatonic = R-2-3-5-6
Minor Pentatonic = R-b3-4-5-b7
Blues = R-b3-4-b5-5-b7
Major Scale = R-2-3-4-5-6-7
Natural Minor Scale = R-2-b3-4-5-b6-b7
Harmonic Minor Scale = R-2-b3-4-5-b6-7
Melodic Minor Scale = R-2-b3-4-5-6-7



Have fun.

[oldcatfish]

Quote "R-3-5-8 is safe over any major chord.
So is R-3-5-6. I love that sound.
R-b3-5-b3 is safe over any minor chord.
And R-b3-5-b7 is safe over any minor seventh chord.
R-3-5-b7 is safe over any dominant seventh chord, aka C7.
R-3-5-7 is safe over any maj7 chord, aka Cmaj7."

Great info.

An even easier way to spice up your root note playing a little...use the 5th of the chord tone that you want to go to on the upbeat right before the 1 downbeat. For example, if you are on a D root note and the next chord is C, hit a G note right before the switch, then go to the C root. It makes even very easy bass lines much more interesting. This technique is known as using "leading tones," in this case a dominant 5th. You can use different leading tone approaches too, but the dominant 5th works very well with most types of music, and is easy to apply.

[Phalex]

My church has a large number of rotating band members. It's rarely the same group of people twice. We get charts and a single practice before we play in front of a thousand people or more on any given Sunday.

I subscribe to the K.I.S.S. (Keep It Simple Stupid) method. I try to play the in the right key in the right time, and let the worship leader do his thing. (With the right drummer, fun stuff has been known to happen however.)

[Jhengsman]

Originally Posted by kunji09

alright thanks for the tips guys, and im kinda just gonna try and respond to it all at once here, im looking at lead guitar, we have no rhythm guitar, lead (acoustic) keys, bass, drums and singers

Sounds tough I suppose he got used to playing without a bass player so you two are doubling up on the bass notes, with you being a beat behind?

From a related thread:

Originally Posted by jive1

A good ear is an absolute must.
- Most gospel gigs have NO charts. Maybe a lyric sheet if you are lucky.
- The keyboard players transpose alot, so you can't look at their left hand for the chords.
- Lots of amazing musicians who just kill on their instrument, but if you asked them what they just played such as notes or chords, they will have no idea.
- You must be able to pick things up on the fly, as many ministers of music may not get a recording to you in time for a service.
- Some folks like to modulate, and modulate more than once. You may not always get a signal that it's coming, but it will and you'll need to catch it.
.....

.

In Urban Gospel you rarely see tabs or even lyric/chord charts. if something exist it is a keyboard player's version of tab. As the bass player you may be able to pull out the left hand of what that keyboardist "tabbed" out but it is much too busy for me. Useful for learning not for performing just like tab for a guitar player. Here is an example for Amazing Grace:

AMAZING GRACE

G
Arr. by Hammondman!

INST. L.H. / R.H. WORDS (SINGLE NOTES)

A (D)
MAZ GD / G
ING (B A G )
GRACE BEbA / G
HOW (A)
SWEET CG / Csus
THE DbG / Db dim6
SOUND DG / C6

THAT (D)
SAVED BEb / ADG
A - (B A G )
WRETCH BbAb / G
LIKE (D)
ME DA / CM7
DC / B

I (B)
ONCE DC / FGCEG
WAS
LOST GF / AbBEAb
BUT
NOW - CG / Csus
I'M - DbG / Db dim6
FOUND - DG / C6

WAS EbBb / ACEbGb (Adim6)
BLIND EB / Em7
BUT- AEb / GACEb (Gaug7)
NOW DA / CM7
I DC / B
SEE GD / DGBD

[kunji09]

Came To My Rescue Chords by Hillsongs @ Ultimate-Guitar.Com

we play this in G, and i pretty much play the note that the chord is, Guitar chord is G and i play G. the most i do is hit a note in between, for example, going from Em to C ill hit D as a transition note. im not sure how else to put it. And i play patterns kind of, say you have a bar of four between each chord change, so usually im playing 8 notes, 4 notes, or 3 (play the first, dont play the second note in the bar, then play the third and fourth, then swich to the next note)

and yes when i first started i was a beat or two behind for switching, now usually i know the majority of the songs and keys, as well being blessed enough to figure out the pattern/key/chord progression pretty quick into a song so then i know it for the rest of the time its sung.

still working on processing and reading all the posts, but you all are such a blessing! thanks for all the help!

[MalcolmAmos]

Sounds like you are doing great. It'll all come in time.

Has anyone told you about slash chords?

C                  G
Falling on my knees in worship
Am             F                 C
Giving all I am to seek Your face
        G/B              Am  F
Lord all I am is is Yours

On the G/B the bass ignores the G and plays the B, i.e. we play the slash and leave the G for the other guys to get.

Have fun.

[SoVeryTired]

Originally Posted by kunji09

Came To My Rescue Chords by Hillsongs @ Ultimate-Guitar.Com

we play this in G, and i pretty much play the note that the chord is, Guitar chord is G and i play G. the most i do is hit a note in between, for example, going from Em to C ill hit D as a transition note. im not sure how else to put it. And i play patterns kind of, say you have a bar of four between each chord change, so usually im playing 8 notes, 4 notes, or 3 (play the first, dont play the second note in the bar, then play the third and fourth, then swich to the next note)

and yes when i first started i was a beat or two behind for switching, now usually i know the majority of the songs and keys, as well being blessed enough to figure out the pattern/key/chord progression pretty quick into a song so then i know it for the rest of the time its sung.

still working on processing and reading all the posts, but you all are such a blessing! thanks for all the help!

Sounds like you're doing well. I'm quite new to bass but have been playing guitar in church for years, so know the chord progressions well. I started playing bass by literally picking it up one rehearsal when our bassist didn't show and started playing root notes. The thing that's helped me is listening to and copying the recorded versions - I might not play them the exact same way but I learn some riffs and tricks which I can start to use in other songs as well.

And there's nothing wrong with root notes - they're vital. You'll find that a lot of the Hillsong material on CD is root note-based. The basslines aren't overly complicated except when they decide to throw in a solo - we often end up doing 'The Time Has Come' when I'm on bass.

[pedroims]

Originally Posted by kunji09

We have no set list, and the WL picks whatever song and goes with it next

Does this mean that you dont get the song list in advance neither you guys have a rehearsal prior the service? Seems to me that somebody need to talk with the leader, there are great seminars for W&P leadership.

As far as you OP, root and 5th are the best option to build a bassline on the fly, I like to use 5 and 6 one octave below and keep it simple.

for C Mayor:

G------------------------

D-------------------------

A ---------3--------------

E---------- -- 3--------5

For C minor

G------------------------

D-------------------------

A ---------3-------------1-

E---------- -- 3-----------

[Jhengsman]

Originally Posted by MalcolmAmos

Sounds like you are doing great. It'll all come in time.

Has anyone told you about slash chords?

C                  G
Falling on my knees in worship
Am             F                 C
Giving all I am to seek Your face
        G/B              Am  F
Lord all I am is is Yours

On the G/B the bass ignores the G and plays the B, i.e. we play the slash and leave the G for the other guys to get.

Have fun.

If the goal is to move beyond playing roots he can't ignore the G. The bassist responsibility may be to hit the B to show the movement in the bassline but the G tells him what is needed for that walking line or short fill should he attempt it there.

Say the simple R,5 ignoring the G would have him hitting B, F# instead of B, D

[kunji09]

yep, was told about slash chords, and i was like thats cool, but often we have no set list or sheet music. when i first started playing our worship leader had been playing for a long time and never used sheet music or a set list, but rather played what he felt was best/what direction he deemed God was moving in, after he stepped down, our new younger leader has a bunch of sheet music on the stand, but again, moves how he feels is best/how God moves, and if he gives me a bunch of sheet music, its usually easier and faster to play root notes via what i see him playing. and we do practice, but usually its new songs, and its only a few, we have an hour for worship so we could play from 5 to 15 songs in that time.