Playing Behind the Beat

[jfabrizio]

I currently play in a blues band in Boston
www.hoodoorev.com and I am trying to get better at playing behind the beat to enhance the rhythmic effect of the band. But, I am having trouble picking this up since my natural is to play on the beat. Does anyone have any techniques or tips they could pass along to help me get better at this? Also, could someone tell me of some recordings in which the bass player is playing behind the beat? Thanks

[blankstare77]

Don't think so much. You have to learn how to FEEL it. You don't THINK about playing behind the beat; that screws it all up, trust me.

Just listen to Jazzy stuff. Just lay back, man! It isn't easy at first, but just let it flow.

Most importantly, listen to the drummer. Drummers usually always play behind the beat. If you just sit down and listen to the relationship between the melodic instruments and the drums/bassline, you'll really start to get it.

Did I say don't think so much?

[lonote]

I am just beginning to win that battle myself. I work with a metronome about an hour a day and, at gigs, I make sure I can hear the kick and the snare loud and clear. You may want to listen to Larry Taylor on Kim Wilson's CD, "Smokin' Joint" and Jon Ross's work with Troy Gonyea. Good luck!

[Kenny Allyn]

Behind the beat huh ... I'm better at doing it than describing it, laying back on the chord changes is just part of it, for me it's also coming up and nailing the ONE on the beat after an off time walkup riff ... Scratches head try listening to the band Little Feet doing "Another Mans Space" live ... or maybe Susan Tedeshi doing "Just Won"t Burn"

Almost anything slow by Muddy Waters and a lot of Albert King with the STAX guys.

Our lovely singer Denise and me at a Memphis Blues Society event. Here we are doing the Koko Taylor standard "Wang Dang Doodle" in which I do a lot of behind the beat walkups.

Attachment 56849 click thumbnail

... Doing our best to keep it behind the beat.

[DocBop]

First you have to be a master of the beat. Practice clapping on the beat and then work around clapping behind the beat, on the beat, on top of the beat. Doing it without the bass you can focus more on the time and feeling it.

I would also listen to Raegae playing behind the beat is what they are all about.

[pike66]

The June 2007 issue of Bass Guitar magazine has an article about Bill Wyman where he describes how he played behind Charlie Watts, especially on early Rolling Stones records.

[daffy]

Most reggae players credit their behind the beat playing to being completely stoned out of their minds for most of the time :-)

Seriously, reggae does tend to be behind the beat more than not. I also find East Coast funk (George Porter Jr. from The Meters for instance) is more behind the beat than West Coast (Tower Of Power is very on the beat most times). This is not a hard rule unfortunately as you change where you play to change the feel of the song.

The way it feels to me when I'm playing behind the beat is that I'm hanging right back waiting till the last possible moment to pluck the string - any later and I would sound out of time (my drummer would say that's my natural state ). It also feels as if I'm rolling my plucking finger off the string instead of just plucking it. Does that make sense?

On the other side, when I'm playing in front of the beat it feels to me like I'm trying to hurry the drummer up, and I'm pushing the song to move faster, or that I'm trying to anticipate the drummer.

Ed Friedland had a good section on this in his Bass Grooves book.

[62Walnut]

Kenny, any chance you could post a soundclip of you playing those 'behind the beat' walkups on Wang Dang Doodle on your lovely LeCompte?

It looks nice and compact and light for gigging in that pic.

All other posters, please feel free to encourage Kenny to do this. But encourage nicely!

Thank You

Walnut

[Bass Mule]

Any New Orleans blues/jazz flavored funk will get you there. Go out and buy the Meters greatest hits (George Porter Jr). He'll become your new favorite.




Oh, and Kenny, post some sound clips or whatever...

[KayCee]

I'm reading some excellent ideas here. I would add that I think that most players have a tendency to rush, doing so in an attempt to excite the music. It (sort of) accomplishes that, but not in the way that finding a deep pocket groove does.

As far as playing behind the beat, some players have a way of "pulling" at the feel (reggae players, for instance). I don't believe that it's really "behind" the beat, but more at the back end of the pocket.

[Askia]

Listen to Me'Shell N'degéOcello!
She knows how to do it, andplay along with her!

[JimmyM]

I totally agree with those who say not to think about it. However, in the beginning stages, you have to think about it. The thing that helped me the most was working with a metronome playing ballads at very slow speeds.

[mattblissett]

I second Meshell, in fact any of the Washington Go-Go players would be worth a moment of your time as well. It is difficult, but it takes practice and confidence

[DocBop]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

I totally agree with those who say not to think about it. However, in the beginning stages, you have to think about it. The thing that helped me the most was working with a metronome playing ballads at very slow speeds.

I disagree you need to develop the you internal metronome it be able to control playing behind, on top, or on the beat. I remember talking to Jim Keltner once the legendary drummer. He is known as a human metronome. He can play a simple Rock beat and it sounds HUGE, I asked how he makes it sound so big. He said he play the hiHat on the beat, the bass drum on top of the beat, and snare behind the beat. Collectively the beat is big and fat.

So to play behind the beat constantly in time you need to devlop your internal metronome and can't just depend on feeling it. That is why I say use a metronome clicking on 2 and 4 when working on time. Working on a song then use a drum machine.

My two cents.

[stedtale]

Originally Posted by DocBop

... That is why I say use a metronome clicking on 2 and 4 when working on time. ...

+1

Yeah, this does wonders for your feel. I do it all the time.

[geoffkhan]

The feel of playing behind the beat, or at least for me, comes from a sorta delayed lurching forwards of the shoulders lead by the body, and a certain feeling in the stomach. It's difficult to describe, as these things tend to be, but probably the best advice is listening to music with that feel. After listening, try to imitate it, because once you experience it yourself, you'll know what you're after.

[robertoleyte]

Most of Dexter Gordon's solos (and playing melody too) seem to be very behind the beat. Listen to "the shadow of your smile" and try to figure how he does that!