Playing behind the beat and laying back...

raul · #1 01-30-2008, 11:29 AM

i'm now playing with a really great drummer and it's going to be a really good gig for me. very happy that i've got this good gig going. the thing is...o.k. he knows i can play bass and all of that, but he wants me to "lay back" and play "behind the beat" at times. he says my playing is fina nad all but that i need to lay waaaaaay back and then at times play something that just kinda pops out and then go waaay back again.
huh? help!
i can groove and all but i need abit of advice with this. we're playing music with lots of groove, sometimes bluesy, always full of soul and some old school rock and blues feel. but i need to lay back and play behind the beat...
any suggestions?

justinbass · #2 01-30-2008, 11:35 AM

Find a D'Angelo CD that Pino plays on. That is the best example of playing behind the beat you can hear.

It is a lazy, notes played an instant too late, way of playing that gives music a more chill, relaxd feel.

dbcandle · #3 01-30-2008, 11:44 AM

Playing right "on the beat" is pretty straight forward - very "machine like", like perfect MIDI syncronization. As for the others:

Behind the beat - You hit each beat a little after "on the beat". Tends to make things feel "laid back" and "relaxed". The trick is for everyone else to stay on the beat, and not slow-down to match you.
Ahead of the beat - You hit each beat a little before everyone else. Tends to provide "tension" and a feeling of "excitement". Again, others need to know what you're doing and not follow your lead (increase tempo).

Done well, the time-gap between the folks "on the beat" and the folks ahead or behind is much of what creates a "wide pocket", re: "playing in the pocket".

There are practice drills for working with a metronome, but if you're whole band is aware of the above, you can probably "feel" (hear?) your way through it. Probably best to decide if your band-mates should "lock-in" to your beat or the drummer - otherwise, things could get messy. If you're going for "behind the beat", and they "lock-in" to you, the drummer will instantly become ahead of the beat, and you'll be "on the beat"!

nubs · #4 01-30-2008, 11:51 AM

this cracks me up, i worked for a long long time to learn and train myself to play behind the beat, and "lay back".....sometime within the last year me and a drummer buddy were trying to put together a band/side priject with a tremendous vocalist from the area, we invited a couple guitarist down to see what we had going and their complaint to us was that the drummer and i played behind the beat too much and we used "too big of a pocket" we were like, "whatever!" thanks drive around, pay at the window! next.....

raul · #5 01-30-2008, 12:20 PM

o.k., i think i see what playing behind the beat has to do with. feeling.
how do you learn to do this? i need some real advice here.
anything i can do with a metronome?
name some other great players who are super at this kind of feel.
i really need to learn this right. this is not a "geddy lee" kinda gig, as he put it. it's more layed back most of the time. but, i need to work on thi son my own as well. so, i need some practice suggestions.

also, it seems that if you are playing behind the beat, and not ahead of it, would that not make you sound like you are hitting the note a bit late? huh? is that not it?

i really need some advice/help with this concept.

thanks...you all are a great help.

tkozal · #6 01-30-2008, 12:52 PM

Tony Levin discusses this in his book "Beyond the Bass Clef" pretty essential stuff....this big fat hairybeat

locolobo85 · #7 01-30-2008, 01:04 PM

Can anyone point out more examples of this style other than the D'Angelo album mentioned above?

j.a.e.r.i.p · #8 01-30-2008, 01:09 PM

Me'shell! (not gonna attempt to spell last name)
my favorite example of this is a tune called Greasy G by Joshua Redman off of Momentum, a must hear in relation to this topic

unclekebm · #9 01-30-2008, 01:33 PM

smoke weed, play behind the beat...
smoke crack, play ahead of the beat...

just kiddin'...

newfuture · #10 01-30-2008, 01:42 PM

When I play behind the beat, I visualize it like this: when the 1 (or whichever beat we're talking about) happens, that's when my finger contacts the string, I then feel the string against my fingerprint as I pull across it, and release the note a bit late.

It's almost like listening for the downbeat, and using that as a cue for the next note.

If I'm playing on beat, my fingers are moving faster, so I'm releasing the note directly on the beat.

That's how I do it anyhow, HTH.

jfv · #11 01-30-2008, 01:55 PM

Working on this with a metronome works best if you
have it play 2 and 4, but its pretty tough to do alone.

Best way is to have a really experienced drummer to
help. I get to play with this awesome guy with like
50 years of jazz and classical percussion experience,
when he tells me something about the beat I LISTEN

No matter what, it takes time and practice.

Deluge Of Sound · #12 01-30-2008, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unclekebm

smoke weed, play behind the beat...
smoke crack, play ahead of the beat...

just kiddin'...

Or are you?
EDIT:
Radiohead's Anyone Can Play Guitar (off Pablo Honey) has always sounded to me what playing behind the beat should sound like. The verses especially.

unclekebm · #13 01-30-2008, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deluge Of Sound

Or are you?
EDIT:
Radiohead's Anyone Can Play Guitar (off Pablo Honey) has always sounded to me what playing behind the beat should sound like. The verses especially.

only 50%...
i believe "crack" is for licking! not smoking...

some early Rolling Stones has examples of playing behind the beat

Deluge Of Sound · #14 01-30-2008, 03:50 PM

The Stones played to a beat?!?!

I love them because in some of their best songs it only seems like one of them knows what's actually going on, and every one else just kinda jams along on their own weird tangents, it should be a trainwreck, but it's beautiful instead.
Can't You Hear Me Knocking, for example.

The Stones, as good as the Beatles for the opposite reasons.