Playing with busy drummer

NWB · #1 03-03-2013, 11:38 AM

I recently joined a pop/fusion group and have to say that the music is really quite fun to play.

However, the drummer is extremely busy and doesn't leave enough space in the music IMO. I have been playing right along with him, but I prefer not to play such busy bass lines so that the music opens up more. I feel that reserving blazing bass parts for certain moments is more effective.

And yes, I have suggested pulling things back a bit.

Any advice?

cricman · #2 03-03-2013, 11:46 AM

Ultimately, you have to play what makes the piece sound the best. If you get into a situation in which you are trying to "out-produce" the drummer, you end up with song that can be cumbersome, complicated, and overly busy for no reason. Pick your battles and blaze when you can. Sometimes the best notes are the carefully thought out long notes and more flowing passages. Sometimes frenetic sonic activity works as well.

good luck,

cricman

bluesdogblues · #3 03-03-2013, 11:57 AM

If he plays good... you're lucky

SactoBass · #4 03-03-2013, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NWB

However, the drummer is extremely busy and doesn't leave enough space in the music IMO. I have been playing right along with him, but I prefer not to play such busy bass lines so that the music opens up more. I feel that reserving blazing bass parts for certain moments is more effective.

And yes, I have suggested pulling things back a bit.

Any advice?

Ah yes, the dreaded "overplayer" syndrome. It's like having to listen to someone in a restaurant who talks way too much and won't shut the fu*# up!

Regardless of your drummer's age, it sounds to me like he has not yet matured, musically speaking. What separates a good musician from a great musician is knowing how to employ dynamics in the music. If he is playing full bore all the time, he has much to learn. I see four possible solutions:

1. He pulls it back in response to your suggestion.
2. He continues overplaying, and you stay in the band and be unhappy.
3. You replace him.
4. You find another band.

Good luck with whatever happens!

NWB · #5 03-03-2013, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cricman

Ultimately, you have to play what makes the piece sound the best. If you get into a situation in which you are trying to "out-produce" the drummer, you end up with song that can be cumbersome, complicated, and overly busy for no reason. Pick your battles and blaze when you can. Sometimes the best notes are the carefully thought out long notes and more flowing passages. Sometimes frenetic sonic activity works as well.

good luck,

cricman

I'm trying to keep up with the fast drummer. Definitely not trying to "out-produce" him at all.

I'm in complete agreement that long notes or sometimes even, no notes, are what's appropriate.

I think I just need to talk to him more and maybe do some recording to show how less is sometimes better. He's a great guy and I think we can work on this together.

It's funny, I went from a situation where I could never bust loose to one where I'm doing it too much!

truecanadian04 · #6 03-03-2013, 07:48 PM

One of the most important things a bass player needs to do, is know when not to play. Same goes for all instruments. I play metal and I know it's a lot harder to play slow then fast. Show your drummer a one of your solid riffs and till him to put a beat to it.

carldogs · #7 03-03-2013, 10:44 PM

I think you have the right idea of still focusing on dynamics even if the drummer is not, supporting very busy fills with some big sustained low notes can sound good. Ultimately the band does need to work together, as suggested already, try working just with the drummer on some grooves and riffs to see if you both can get a good interaction going with drums and bass, this will also help him to listen to more of what your bass is doing and where he needs to give space for your fills.
It sounds like you enjoy the band and what they are doing so good luck in making it work.

Shanebo · #8 03-03-2013, 10:53 PM

A lot of good advice has already been given above...

Musicality is a thing that eludes some players for a long time--sounds like you are in a position to model some of it for your bandmate(s).

If you and he are on good terms, see if you can get him to listen to something like Dave Matthews' #41 with you. It worked pretty well with a heavy-handed drummer I played with for a few years.

Sometimes they just don't know how much can be done on the drums without killing them.

All the best,

Shane

Roy Vogt · #9 03-03-2013, 10:59 PM

I tend to play less and see what the offending drummer does. A lot of times they'll do the same thing. I'll also play quieter and that will help, he has to play less and listen to what you're doing.

Mushroo · #10 03-04-2013, 09:17 AM

Recommend you burn the drummer a mix CD of your favorite drum/bass rhythm sections and ask him to do the same for you. This will improve your common musical language so you can "click" as a rhythm section.

For example here is a very busy drummer with whom I certainly wouldn't mind playing!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFcpBB4Yy_M

NWB · #11 03-04-2013, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mushroo

Recommend you burn the drummer a mix CD of your favorite drum/bass rhythm sections and ask him to do the same for you. This will improve your common musical language so you can "click" as a rhythm section.

For example here is a very busy drummer with whom I certainly wouldn't mind playing!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFcpBB4Yy_M

Oh, that video! The first time I watched that one, I nearly soiled myself. Those guys are totally bad-a$$.

The mix is a great idea and I'll try that.

MrLenny1 · #12 03-04-2013, 10:14 AM

Slip him a mickey on the next gig. HA!
I worked with a busy drummer for a while.
One gig he came in sick with the flu, tired.
He didn't overplay that night, the band never felt better.

mbeall · #13 03-04-2013, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NWB

I recently joined a pop/fusion group and have to say that the music is really quite fun to play.

However, the drummer is extremely busy and doesn't leave enough space in the music IMO. I have been playing right along with him, but I prefer not to play such busy bass lines so that the music opens up more. I feel that reserving blazing bass parts for certain moments is more effective.

And yes, I have suggested pulling things back a bit.

Any advice?

One question. How is his time?

NWB · #14 03-04-2013, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbeall

One question. How is his time?

Fairly good for the most part.

RedMoses · #15 03-04-2013, 02:53 PM

Mike Clark and Paul Jackson of the headhunters are busy, as long as you guys are keeping that pocket... Like someone already said, try and get into his head by having him listen to music that may inspire him to groove deeper as opposed to wank off.

Marial · #16 03-04-2013, 03:42 PM

The drummer in the band before my current one was very busy and filled up a lot of space. In order to make the rhythm section work for the songs I simply played fewer notes but played more melodically underneath the vocals to drive the dynamics of the song. Every once in a while the BL would ask me to play more, to which I'd always replay, ask the drummer to play less. I got the point where I think it was actually beneficial for my playing, I think I learned to do more by doing less, as it were.

NWB · #17 03-04-2013, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marial

The drummer in the band before my current one was very busy and filled up a lot of space. In order to make the rhythm section work for the songs I simply played fewer notes but played more melodically underneath the vocals to drive the dynamics of the song. Every once in a while the BL would ask me to play more, to which I'd always replay, ask the drummer to play less. I got the point where I think it was actually beneficial for my playing, I think I learned to do more by doing less, as it were.

I'm going to try this. I like the idea.

To all the respondants, thanks much for your helpful advice!

**zcwilkes** · #18 03-05-2013, 07:11 AM

I'm pretty lucky in the since that my current bandmates are all very aware of the space they take up sonically. We are a progish power trio so there is alot of space of all of us. Just be tastful. You sound like you may be ahead of your bandmates in the musical maturity department. Some casual conversation over a few beers could fix that or at least get him thinking about it.

ddnidd1 · #19 03-05-2013, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SactoBass

Ah yes, the dreaded "overplayer" syndrome. It's like having to listen to someone in a restaurant who talks way too much and won't shut the fu*# up!

Regardless of your drummer's age, it sounds to me like he has not yet matured, musically speaking. What separates a good musician from a great musician is knowing how to employ dynamics in the music. If he is playing full bore all the time, he has much to learn. I see four possible solutions:

1. He pulls it back in response to your suggestion.
2. He continues overplaying, and you stay in the band and be unhappy.
3. You replace him.
4. You find another band.

Good luck with whatever happens!

Amen!

And normally players who overplay are rarely turned around in the short term, if at all.

GladHeAteHer · #20 03-05-2013, 05:03 PM

If he's really good, then it seems to be a matter of adjustment time and you two feeling each other out. I often find that really good, really busy drummers try to fill more space due to generally practicing alone or without a bassist, making them feel the need to drive the song. Just take a little more time to find the balance between the two of you.