playing in chord tones

[nboyer941]

So I have been playing for about two years now. Been playing with several different bands and things are good. However, when I was taught to play I was taught by guitar players and they started me with learning scales and I just rolled with it.

Now, I am starting to realize why I have hit dead ends is because I never play the notes of the chords that I'm on. I'm stuck on this subject. The good news is that I have a good understanding of basic music theory and how things work, so I pick up on things quickly.

My question is, if I have this information down: http://www.studybass.com/lessons/bass-chord-patterns/
is that sufficient, or is that just getting started? This is showing me the patterns of chords. Is this what I should be focused on? It is pretty basic stuff. I was thinking I would have to memorize the notes for all the different chords in all 12 different keys.

Any input is appreciated.

[derelicte]

i'd say just lock urself in a room with a bottle of jack and some jam tracks and just mess around until u feel out how to play. the info is good enough as a start, but i think it helps more to view playing chord tones from a keyboard POV. if u know ur chord and the structures, u can play them on bass just the same, ala doublestops.

[Pacman]

wow - that is just bad advice.

[DudeistMonk]

There is not much more too it, chord tones are scale degrees...however the challenge comes in sitting there and practicing the arpeggios over and over until they are second nature...also your gonna want to glean some understanding on chord progressions (how the chords relate to the key, how to connect chords, is the V going to be major or minor? stuff like that), start with blues and work your way to jazz....The idea being you need to learn how to get from a ii to a V or from a V to the I for different styles and feels, in different keys ext.

There are tons of threads within the last week on this, and I'm sure Stumbo will be by in a matter of hours to give you enough reading material for a degree

[Richard Lindsey]

Since blues tonality can be kind of a thing of its own, it might be even better to start with something where the harmony and melody are a tad straighter (eg, where you don't have a dominant 7th chord as your tonic). Like certain Hank Williams songs, or perhaps a Bach chorale if your tastes go that way.

To the OP's original question: you do need to understand the notes you're playing. Just learning some finger patterns isn't enough. The physical patterns are just ways of getting the notes you need. The mental patterns allow to to generate the chords on your own, which is more valuable than rote memorization. Learning how to make the chords and why they're made that way will be more useful than just trying to memorize them as abstract sets of letter names. And sooner or later, when you do this enough, you'll learn all the chords anyway (and will be better able to retain what you learn).

[MalcolmAmos]

Yes knowing when you see or hear a C chord you know what riff will work best - in this song.

R will work
R-5 will also work
But R-R-3-3-5-5-6-5 may work better in this song. Know your patterns, and then being flexible enough to adapt them to the situation at hand is the important issue.

It goes beyond playing by rote.

[mambo4]

Arpeggios are a solid start.

Once have the chord tones down, It's important not to look at the chords in isolation. Chord tones are to be building blocks for creating a line the moves fluidly through the chord changes in a way that supports the rhythmic style of the song. In reality it is often inappropriate for the song to to outline a chord with 4 note arpeggios...you may have to pick one or two chord tones and use passing tones, you may be best served by pedaling the root...the song style will dictate much of the choices.

Learn to recognize common chord progressions. (Like I-IV-V and I-vi-ii-V, etc.) Learn to analyze the bass lines you admire in terms of how they navigate through those chord changes.

[MarkTAW]

Now that you know the notes in the various chords, you should start thinking about how to connect different chords. What notes overlap? What notes don't overlap?

There are only 3 ways chords connect.

- By 4ths/5ths.
- By 3rds.
- By 2nds.

Start with any chord in a key & think of any other chord in the key - it will connect in one of those 3 ways.

Eg.

C to B - 2nd
C to A - 3rd
C to G - 4th/5th
C to F - 4th/5th
C to E - 3rd
C to D - 2nd

If you can think around those 3 types of chord changes, that'll take your playing to a new level where you're not just thinking of the one chord you're in & then moving to the next chord, but rather thinking about where you're going.

[JTE]

This is key. The bass player's job is to tie the rhythm with the melody and harmony, AND to DEFINE the harmony. So knowing the chord tones is critical- we gotta OWN the chords. But as MarkTAW says, we also have to LEAD the band through the chords. Not only tell them "we're at the ii chord here", but also tell them "we're going to be going to the V".

And if you understand the chord tones, and how the chords go together, you'll find that with a good ear and some sensitivity to the SONG you can use just about any other note at different times to tie the chords together. It's very liberating to understand that a b5 might be exactly what you need here and totally wrong in another context even with the same two chords.

John

[Already In Use]

Originally Posted by MarkTAW

Now that you know the notes in the various chords, you should start thinking about how to connect different chords. What notes overlap? What notes don't overlap?

There are only 3 ways chords connect.

- By 4ths/5ths.
- By 3rds.
- By 2nds.

Start with any chord in a key & think of any other chord in the key - it will connect in one of those 3 ways.

Eg.

C to B - 2nd
C to A - 3rd
C to G - 4th/5th
C to F - 4th/5th
C to E - 3rd
C to D - 2nd

If you can think around those 3 types of chord changes, that'll take your playing to a new level where you're not just thinking of the one chord you're in & then moving to the next chord, but rather thinking about where you're going.

Is there a specific rule that applies to this. I am just learning and studying triads. Seems then I also need to learn each chord structure to pick out the 4ths, 5ths, 3rds and 2nds.

If I were playing a C E G triad and wanted to go to a D F# A, I dont know the 4th, 5th, 3rd or 2nd. Please help me understand further. I can "hear" the transitions in music but dont have the experience to pick the notes out yet. Thanks,

[Billnc]

Originally Posted by Already In Use

Is there a specific rule that applies to this. I am just learning and studying triads. Seems then I also need to learn each chord structure to pick out the 4ths, 5ths, 3rds and 2nds.

If I were playing a C E G triad and wanted to go to a D F# A, I dont know the 4th, 5th, 3rd or 2nd. Please help me understand further. I can "hear" the transitions in music but dont have the experience to pick the notes out yet. Thanks,

You're confusing the scale degrees with chord movement (I think) Your C triad is moving to a D triad by a second.

The other scale degrees (2 4 6 and 7) in relation to the triad are tensions, or you can look at them as a means of getting from one chord tone to the next and yes, you do want to be able to recognise them. Really worry about understanding one concept at a time though. (and I don't heed my own advice on that)

[guroove]

First things first, if you want to play music, there is a basic level of understanding theory that is a must. I'm not sure what your understanding of theory is, but without a basic understanding, practicing scales and arpeggios is going to get you nowhere.

1) Learn the names of all the notes on your instrument

2) Learn how what makes a major and minor scale, and know all the notes in whatever scale / key you are playing, and understand why each key has all the accidentals that are in it.

3) Understand what a 1 - 4 - 5 progression means, and what it sounds like

4) Learn how to create major and minor triads, and be able to sing them.

5) Know how to create a triad starting from every note of a scale. In the key of C major, this would be C major, D minor, E minor, F major, G major, A minor and B diminished.

6) Same as above with seventh chords.

Ok, once you understand all this, run your scales and arpeggios up and down the neck. Always do it in 2 octaves, and learn how to go up one way, and down another.

[Already In Use]

One more...If I was playing the C E G triad and wanted to go to a F A C triad can I play notes that are any 4ths, 5ths 3rds or 2nds in the C scale to get there? Would that apply to any key?

[Already In Use]

Originally Posted by guroove

First things first, if you want to play music, there is a basic level of understanding theory that is a must. I'm not sure what your understanding of theory is, but without a basic understanding, practicing scales and arpeggios is going to get you nowhere.

1) Learn the names of all the notes on your instrument

2) Learn how what makes a major and minor scale, and know all the notes in whatever scale / key you are playing, and understand why each key has all the accidentals that are in it.

3) Understand what a 1 - 4 - 5 progression means, and what it sounds like

4) Learn how to create major and minor triads, and be able to sing them.

5) Know how to create a triad starting from every note of a scale. In the key of C major, this would be C major, D minor, E minor, F major, G major, A minor and B diminished.

6) Same as above with seventh chords.

Ok, once you understand all this, run your scales and arpeggios up and down the neck. Always do it in 2 octaves, and learn how to go up one way, and down another.

Thanks..Going on 2 months into this. I have a chart to study and practice with major, minor, augmented and diminished triads in each key.

My entire family lived on Staten Island years ago before moving to NJ.

[guroove]

Originally Posted by Already In Use

One more...If I was playing the C E G triad and wanted to go to a F A C triad can I play notes that are any 4ths, 5ths 3rds or 2nds in the C scale to get there? Would that apply to any key?

I'm not sure what you mean by this. If you are just playing 1-3-5 for every chord, and you are going from a C to an F chord, you can just go C E G - F A C without any passing tones.

You can literally play any notes you want to connect the chords if they sound ok. Sometimes an F# can work in the scenario above even in the key of C.

You generally want to limit the use of chord tones to the strong beats, but anything can be a passing tone, really. If you want to stay safe, you should stick to the notes in the key you are playing.

[Billnc]

Originally Posted by Already In Use

One more...If I was playing the C E G triad and wanted to go to a F A C triad can I play notes that are any 4ths, 5ths 3rds or 2nds in the C scale to get there? Would that apply to any key?

Yes, but context is everything. First, from your C triad, the last note before the F triad think what the closest chord tone in F is, go to this. This is a very important exercise. i.e you're on the E note in the Cmajor, this would lead to F etc. I would do this before moving on to the other notes.

[Richard Lindsey]

Originally Posted by Already In Use

One more...If I was playing the C E G triad and wanted to go to a F A C triad can I play notes that are any 4ths, 5ths 3rds or 2nds in the C scale to get there? Would that apply to any key?

That's not what Mark meant. He was talking about the way that the roots of chords move by 2nds, 3rds, 4ths, 5ths--that is, the number of steps (that is, letter names) you have to take to get to the next chord, with your starting location counted as 1. When you go from a C triad to an F triad, you are moving up a 4th, or down a 5th if the F is lower in pitch. Why? Start by taking C as 1. So, going up:

C D E F
1 2 3 4

Hence C up to F is a 4th.

And going down:

C B A G F
1 2 3 4 5

Hence C down to F is a 5th.

[Already In Use]

Originally Posted by Richard Lindsey

That's not what Mark meant. He was talking about the way that the roots of chords move by 2nds, 3rds, 4ths, 5ths--that is, the number of steps (that is, letter names) you have to take to get to the next chord, with your starting location counted as 1. When you go from a C triad to an F triad, you are moving up a 4th, or down a 5th if the F is lower in pitch. Why? Start by taking C as 1. So, going up:

C D E F
1 2 3 4

Hence C up to F is a 4th.

And going down:

C B A G F
1 2 3 4 5

Hence C down to F is a 5th.

Cool..I got that. Thanks.

[JimmyT]

Why wouldn't you express an upward root movement as a 6th or 7th? Say C to A or C to B...

[Richard Lindsey]

Originally Posted by JimmyT

Why wouldn't you express an upward root movement as a 6th or 7th? Say C to A or C to B...

Because a 6th is just the inverse of a 3rd, and a 7th is just the inverse of a 2nd. If you go from a root of C to a root of A, harmonically it's the same whether you went up to the A or down to it. Naturally the textural effect differs between the two, because of the difference in register, but harmonically it doesn't really matter.

The 4th is the inverse of the 5th, which I imagine is why Mark wrote 4th/5th in his original post.