Playing with the drummer:playing with the hi hat, toms and other parts of the drum

[Langueta]

. What is the most important part when it comes to establishing a groove of some kind with the drums as a electric bassist?
I think that it is to establish a poket with the kick and snare
Well this is the most impòrtan thing for me......?
But what about adding notes with other parts of the drum?

Then adding to this fundamental musical statement, a ghost note is a high hat, a slide is a tom, a release is closing a high hat, etc. (DO YOU USE THIS PARAMETERS ALSO??)

And all these things happen in a rhythmically coherent way. If it isn't happening, the bass drum may be correct, but everything else is kind of a random mess and it just doesn't groove. Furthermore, there's no way you can actually consciously will all these things to happen in a rhythmically coherent way.
I heard ones that Jamerson played along very much with what the hi hat was doing, that is why his lines where so busy
Do you play along with other parts of the drum, and for example accent the fills of the drummer??
I think it is an interesting thing every bass player should think about...
opinions please

THINK IN A ROCK CONTEXT....! And give some examples of what other bass players do...

[cowsgomoo]

I think it's a ridiculous way of thinking

not that ridiculous is always bad.. ridiculous ideas can sometimes produce interesting music.. but to try and match what the drummer is playing note for note as a pretty much hard and fast rule is about the wackiest thing I ever heard...

what about the other instruments ? is any consideration given to how your bass line interacts with what they're playing? or are you too busy trying to match ghost notes with the drummer's hi-hat and match every bass drum flutter with every thumb slap?

I think as long as you subdivide beats in the same way as the drummer (i.e you 'swing' together consistently), that 'locking in with the bass drum etc' is massively overrated...

a few years ago, I did a piece where the slap bass line matched absolutely NO bass drums, snare drum or toms... just as an experiment... they were totally mismatched.. the bass poked through the holes in the drumset and vice versa... and guess what? it grooved... it grooved because the beats were subdivided correctly, with the right feel

my contention is that 'playing the same stuff as the drums' is a stylistic requirement for certain types of music, not a general requirement for all music, and certainly not something you can apply such blanket statements to

Jamerson didn't lock in with the hi-hat, although he reinforced the sense of constant, slightly swung 16th notes that the whole band was grooving to... that mid 60's period where his playing went almost overnight from '8th notes with syncopated pushes across the barline with the drummer pounding out 4 equal beats to a bar at about 160bpm' to the 105bpm swingy 16ths 'For Once In My Life' type thing wasn't just a result of trying to match a hi-hat phrase... good music is far far far more holistic than just a set of simple rules to be applied

[Langueta]

I was refering to some notes!! with other parts of the drum instead of the snare and
kick...not to copy what the drummer is doing all the time

[deaf pea]

I don't "copy what the drummer is doing all the time", but I DO try to lock onto whatever the highhat "pulse" is . . .

Mi intencion es enfocar en COMO el baterista esta tocando las contras (hablando de su "quantizacion"), y poner MIS melodias adentro de su "groove" o patron de ellas.

Hope that gives you some ideas . . .

[cowsgomoo]

Originally Posted by Langueta

I was refering to some notes!! with other parts of the drum instead of the snare and
kick...not to copy what the drummer is doing all the time

oh right... ok, sorry

in that case... I think it depends on the musical style you're in

[Ostinato]

Originally Posted by Langueta

I heard ones that Jamerson played along very much with what the hi hat was doing, that is why his lines where so busy
Do you play along with other parts of the drum, and for example accent the fills of the drummer??
I think it is an interesting thing every bass player should think about...
opinions please

I listen to the high hat. Cool that you mentioned Jamerson doing that as well. Different guys have their theories about what part of the kit to pay attention too.

But I'll tell you a story about a band I used to be in...it was a Dance R&B cover band, I was really into playing notes behind the drummer, behind the beat, I thought I was just the sh1t, but I was very inexperienced.

..the drummer loved to fatten the groove by delaying on the kick, and I was taking my cues from this and try to lock with the kick...pretty soon every song would end up slowing down because both of us were trying to "out-delay" each other, even though neither of us had a clue what we were actually doing. You had to be a musician to spot it, but it was pretty funny

After figuring out later from listening to the band rehearsal tapes (gotta tape your rehearsals) and what I was doing on the bass, I finally realized what I was doing and I corrected it. Jamerson was right, listen to the high hat for the tempo, that's the drummer's clave, so to speak.

When I internalize the high hat and play along with it, my phrasing gets smoother and the bass just "sits".

As far as trying play off a drummer's accents, if it's an unrehearsed thing, make sure the drummer finishes. Don't try to anticipate how he's going to finish because you'll never get it right, plus it sounds corny. Drummers LOVE it when bassists leave holes for them, and that goes for any kind of music.

[HaVIC5]

In my opinion, it's the hi-hat's pulse which you should be most concerned about. The style of music is reflected in how the hi hat plays, and you should always be cognizant of what its doing. The kick is the next most important thing to listen to - if its doing anything out of the ordinary, follow it.

[Langueta]

More opionions????
I am listening rush now, very tight rithm section....Lee accents a lot of fills of Peart

[deaf pea]

Originally Posted by Langueta

More opionions????
I am listening rush now, very tight rithm section....Lee accents a lot of fills of Peart

It's probably Peart accenting the bass lines . . . not trying to insult GL, but IME, a good drummer usually makes the bass player look (and sound) better . . .

[JimK]

Originally Posted by HaVIC5

In my opinion, it's the hi-hat's pulse which you should be most concerned about.

...just in case anyone wondered why the bassist should be positioned (on-stage) near the drummer's hi-hat side.
It's usually the most consistent part of the kit.