Playing in E minor..Follow up question..

[Panther]

I am wondering how to approach doing any solo type riffs/breaks in the key of E minor.

That said, my theory is weak, so maybe you guys can help me out a bit.

From what I've read-the key of e minor has only one sharp: F#

The key of E has 4 sharps: C#, D#, G# & F#

I found a chart online that shows the Major keys and their corresponding relative minor keys.

The major key for E minor is G major.

Does this mean that I can focus on the key of G for my riffs?

What is the actual difference between G major, and E minor, if all of the notes are the same? Or is there still a different note in there?

I really appreciate your help!

[Vorago]

E minor, being the minor of G major has one sharp, being #F, and not #G .

[Panther]

Thanks, that was a typo!

[Bruce Lindfield]

You can't just play in E Minor or any key - you have to play the chord sequence and say something about that, or it's going to sound pretty random!!

You can't just say - well I can pick any note from this key - it has to make sense in the context of the music !!

[Panther]

I was just trying to determine what scales, notes and positions that would be available to me based on the break - I still have to know what can be played and what can't/shouldn't be played.

The break just stays on the 'E'-which I suspect is an E minor chord, like in the actual song where Gilmour is soloing. There is no chord progression.

From what I've researched, Gilmour based that solo off of the D pentatonic minor scale.

[tkarter]

R, b3,5


tk

[Jazzin']

Well, E aeolian (natural minor) is the relative minor of G, and they both have 1 sharp (F#). But, when improvising over a Emin7 chord, you should be using E dorian (natural minor with a major 6th) which mean theres a F# and a D#.

[Panther]

Thanks jazzin'.

Will I EVER get this straightened out?

[Jazzin']

The only difference between G ionian (major) and E aeolian (realtive(natural)minor) is that they start on different notes. Theres no other difference.

[tkarter]

The easy way to understand it think chords not modes. Communicate don't beat it to death. Think chords not modes. Worked for me and put me miles ahead of thinking about scales. Hear a chord play what works not at all hard to learn if you will.

IMHO


tk

[metalguy2]

For the sake of soloing thinking in modes is probably alot more sound. I really think if I was thinking in modes when I was first learning music I would have come up with alot better basslines in the future and would have come alot farther along in understanding chords.

[Bruce Lindfield]

A bass line has to outline the chord progression or it is not really a bass line - it is just random noodling!!

If you want to play melodies - these are almost always based on chord tones - in both cases it is about finding a smooth way through the chord changes!

OK, so you can associate certain chords with certain modes/scales in context, based on their function in the sequence - but the best way to get anything meaningful going, is to listen to the chord sequence and get that sound in your head.

You can't just choose random notes from a key - there are thousands of different possible combinations of chords which all sound different - hence the variety of music - not just 12 different keys!!

[jadesmar]

Originally Posted by Jazzin'

... when improvising over a Emin7 chord, you should be using E dorian (natural minor with a major 6th) which mean theres a F# and a D#.

This makes no sense. I think you should feel free to ignore this advice.

[Panther]

Bruce,

What would you do then, based on the fact that it is open space, over an e minor chord?

I was also suggested to me that E pentatonic minor was an excellent fit.....

I just wanted to know what modes would work so I could SEE the spots on the fretboard that were available to me, and then go from there.

[godoze]

the difference between g maj and e minor is in the sequence of half and whole steps.

in a major scale the half steps occur between 3and 4 and 7and 8. in a pure minor scale the half steps occur between 2 and 3 and 5 and 6.

your options for soloing are playing in e minor and also going to the relative major key as well as the parallel major key.

[Bruce Lindfield]

Originally Posted by Panther

Bruce,

What would you do then, based on the fact that it is open space, over an e minor chord?

Well generally in Rock/Pop , Jazz Blues etc. there is always a chord sequence going on - which gives the tune its "sound".

If we're still talking about a Brick in the Wall - then there are hundreds of guitar sites on the web which will tell you that the basic sequence is around C, Dm, F, G - but Rick Wright does add extra chords on keyboards in the guitar solo....

[Jazzin']

Originally Posted by jadesmar

This makes no sense. I think you should feel free to ignore this advice.

Where's the nonsense?
min7 chords are based on the Dorian mode.

[jadesmar]

Originally Posted by Jazzin'

Where's the nonsense?
min7 chords are based on the Dorian mode.

To begin with, the 6th of Em Dorian is not D#. A D# would generally sound chromatic/atonal against an Em7 ..

Secondly, an Em7 chord consists of E-G-B-D or 1 - b3 - 5 - b7. Any mode containing those intervals would sound ok, some choices are better than others. If the chord progression modulates to G - C and D, a C# may (i.e. would likely) sound out of place.

If there was an A major chord in the progression, I could possibly support your choice of an E dorian mode.

The following modes would work over Emin7
E-dorian
E-phrygian
E-aeolian

In this case, the E-aeolian is pretty much where I would want to be.

I do appreciate that you answered your own question however.

[Jazzin']

Originally Posted by jadesmar

To begin with, the 6th of Em Dorian is not D#. A D# would generally sound chromatic/atonal against an Em7 ..

Secondly, an Em7 chord consists of E-G-B-D or 1 - b3 - 5 - b7. Any mode containing those intervals would sound ok, some choices are better than others. If the chord progression modulates to G - C and D, a C# may (i.e. would likely) sound out of place.

If there was an A major chord in the progression, I could possibly support your choice of an E dorian mode.

The following modes would work over Emin7
E-dorian
E-phrygian
E-aeolian

In this case, the E-aeolian is pretty much where I would want to be.

I do appreciate that you answered your own question however.

My bad, I mean't C#. which is the major 6th. I don't know how I even thought it was D#. Although there is no real rule on whether the 6th is major or minor in a Xmin7 chord since it's not actually in the chord, the min7 chord is suposed to be a maj7 chord with a lowed 3rd and 7th. So when lowering the 3rd and 5th on the ionian mode, you get dorian. And in most songs, a dorian scale would be played over a Xmin7 chord. But there's no actual rule, since it's a chord which only contains a R, 3rd, 5th, and 7th.

[jadesmar]

For an Emin7 chord on it's own. I would agree with you, but there is more to the song.

I believe the chorusy bits of the song in question modulate to G major. If that is the case, I would stick with C natural and help to define the E-aeolian/G-ionian sound, or just stick with E-minor pentatonic.. which we would both probably be happy with.