Playing by ear: trying not to hunt 'n peck

[jazzmonk]

Hunting and pecking for the notes I hear in my head is really interfering with my creativity and spontaneity. So I searched for posts about this and after reading many posts, I noticed many here suggest one of two approaches to playing by ear: learn the intervals or learn the notes "contextually" (aka functional ear training).

First I learned all the intervals (ascending and descending) using the Earope ear trainer software. I learned with the help of familiar songs (Star Wars for P5, NBC theme for P6, etc...). Unfortunately when I'm transcribing simple songs (ex. Happy Birthday) as an exercise, I can't make use of the intervals I learned to deconstruct the song into intervals. My brain has a meltdown from having the melody in my mind, listening for the intervals between the each note, then hearing for the familiar songs (ex. Star Wars, NBC theme) in order to identify the intervals. Is this how other people do it too, or am doing it the wrong way?

Once I hit the wall with intervals, I learned to identify pitch contextually using the "Functional Ear Trainer" software. Unfortunately, I'm stuck again when I transcribe songs - it's weird, outside of the software exercises I can't hear the pitch of a melody in the context of a scale in order to pick it apart.

In both cases, the software's exercise were easier to master than to apply it to real songs. I'm going to keep trying even though I feel stuck in the mud, but I would appreciate it if someone experienced can offer some hints and tips for getting unstuck.

Thanks.

[needmoney]

Why not play what you hear on an instrument then write down the corresponding note, you don't have to be able to hear the whole thing then write it down before you even play it. Listen > Play > Write. Or is that what you are trying to avoid? The more you do it the better you get and soon you won't need to hunt 'n' peck as you put it, you'll just hear the shape and be able to play it.

[jazzmonk]

I shouldn't have used the word "transcribed". My intention is strictly to play (not write) what I hear whether it's my own improv or a well-known song. Sorry for the confusion.

Can someone reveal to me what they did (step by step) when they learned how to play what they heard in their head? Did intervals helped? How did you apply intervals to playing by ear?

I'm interested in other people's experiences that lead them to be able to play by ear. Were there "eureka" moments that made all the difference?

Thanks.

[Bazzist]

I find if I do it two bars or so at a time (depending on speed of the tune), and either hum the part back to myself or make sure It's stuck in my head, its much easier. I'll find the first note and go from there.

[jazzmonk]

Originally Posted by needmoney

Why not play what you hear on an instrument then write down the corresponding note, you don't have to be able to hear the whole thing then write it down before you even play it. Listen > Play > Write. Or is that what you are trying to avoid? The more you do it the better you get and soon you won't need to hunt 'n' peck as you put it, you'll just hear the shape and be able to play it.

That's very interesting to me that you hear the shape and can play it. It sounds to me that being able to visualize the motion of the melody helps then?

[brianh]

I can relate to this, and I think most others can too if they tell the truth. My ears used to be horrible and even though I did well in ear training class through college, I still had a lot of problems 'hearing' my way through a gig. Things that always have and continue to help my ears grow are transcription (big help), singing, ear training exercises at the piano (singing intervals, chords, arpegios, scales, etc...), books (David Baker has a good jazz ear training book).

However, nothing really made my ears grow as much as putting myself in musical situations where I was forced to hear stuff on the fly. For me in paticular it has been a combination of faking my way through jazz standards I don't know (on relaxed, low-key gigs of course) and doing a black gospel gig a a baptist church. The gospel gig REALLY helped me a lot because:
1) I have NEVER gotten any written music or even a chord chart
2) I rarely get a CD in advance
3) I regurally have to play songs I don't know and have never heard

...this can be really rough at first but eventually it just makes you stronger. Obviously this isn't something you want to do if you can help it, and you should always learn the music for a gig...If you can. However, a lot of local gigs require you to 'just wing it,' and while this is loose and sometime not "professional," doing these kind of gigs really helps you build your survival skills.

It also helps to do this at home while practicing with some recordings, but nothing beats the pressure you get having to do it on a gig in front of people.

[Groovy Bastard]

Try losing the song trick when identifying intervals, it's not of much use (apart from starting out) like you discovered yourself. You want to get to the point where you can just go: "Ah, augmented 4", or "major 6". Also descending intervals (people often skip that one).
The functional hearing is even better. To broaden this, try to hear the melody note as a function within the chord (is it the root, 5th, flat 6th or whatever of the current chord).

But most important: Be patient! It's difficult stuff, it takes years. Keep on working, and it will come.

[DocBop]

It's not a fast process and transcribing is the process to get you there. You have to start real slow two note, three notes, five notes. Doing simple melodies to build of the ear to recognize intervals and then melodic fragments. Do you know the basic's of sight-singing use numbers of solfeggi and start singing all the bass lines you know already. If you can sing you bass lines in numbers that will help build that association between notes and scale degrees and intervals. Also transcribe simple melodies likes children's songs. Transcribe them vocally with numbers or solfeggi then check on your bass. You have to teach yourself to play the one of the key and then sing up to the note your looking for. You have to practice singing scales up to the 9th or 10th and down to the 5th below.

It is a slow process in the beginning but you need the foundation of hearing, seeing, singing, and finally playing intervals and melodies. Find another musician who want to work on their ear and sit and play intervals and melodies to each other to figure out. Best to find a keyboard player so you can learn to hear the piano.

This doesn't happen over night it takes daily practice and singing.

[jazzmonk]

Originally Posted by brianh

... nothing beats the pressure you get having to do it on a gig in front of people.

Just as I suspected and feared: that some woodsheddin' was needed for me to make sense of it all. I was a mediocre touch typist (hunt 'n pecked half of the time) until I was under the pressure of a real job after I got out of college.

Thanks for sharing.

[jazzmonk]

Originally Posted by Groovy Bastard

Try losing the song trick when identifying intervals, it's not of much use (apart from starting out) like you discovered yourself. You want to get to the point where you can just go: "Ah, augmented 4", or "major 6". Also descending intervals (people often skip that one).
The functional hearing is even better. To broaden this, try to hear the melody note as a function within the chord (is it the root, 5th, flat 6th or whatever of the current chord).

But most important: Be patient! It's difficult stuff, it takes years. Keep on working, and it will come.

This is all too true: the song trick is getting in the way now. How do you break free from it and be able to identify the intervals for what they are instead of being the first two notes of a melody? For example, is it better to sing up/down the scale (using solfege) to the target note in order to get a better sense of the distance and be able to say "ah, that's a maj 6"? Or is there a better way?

Thanks.

[Edited]
I guess DocBop addressed my questions above. Groovy, please feel free to share your own insights.

[theshadow2001]

It seems time spent on the interval ear trainer should of been spent actually transcribing songs. Would anyone else agree?

[RiddimKing]

""It seems time spent on the interval ear trainer should of been spent actually transcribing songs. Would anyone else agree?""

Yeah. In the end, I just hunt for the notes. It's gotten easier over the years, so I guess at some level I'm "hearing the intervals" though I can't tell you what they are until AFTER I've figured the melody or changes out and "transcribed" them. I still sometimes have problems: I tend to guess the 5th for the root if the recording has muddier bass or just a lot of low end.

[jazzmonk]

Originally Posted by theshadow2001

It seems time spent on the interval ear trainer should of been spent actually transcribing songs. Would anyone else agree?

Actually I spent a fair amount of time playing along with motown recordings by hunting and pecking for the right notes. I would guess the general vicinity of the pitch on the fretboard, then sharpen or flat it until I got the matching note. That's the only effective way I know how to play by ear.

After a couple years of that, I've gotten faster at the art of hunting and pecking, but it just strikes me as being very inefficient and disappointing especially considering that I've heard others doing the same and ended up with the ability to play by ear without have to hunt and peck.

That's why I started looking into learning intervals and functional ear training. I understand that transcribing is writing the music down on paper, but I don't understand how it can make less reliant on the hunt and peck "habit" that I'm trying to overcome.

Please enlighten me.

Thanks.

[Bassist4Life]

Sing, sing, sing.

Imitate.

[jazzmonk]

Yeah, I'm already singing the melody - it's the only way for me to commit and recall from memory.

For someone like me who isn't naturally talented and can't make the connection between mind and instrument easily, I need concrete and unambiguous suggestions. So I'm greatful to brianh, groovy, and docbop for your well thought out responses.

It looks like I'm going to have to take up more in-depth solfege singing, take it slowly, continue it for years, put myself on the spot, and hope for the best.

Thanks y'all!

[Bassist4Life]

Originally Posted by jazzmonk

...considering that I've heard others doing the same and ended up with the ability to play by ear without have to hunt and peck.

These people have a lot of experience doing what they do. Bass lines tend to follow predictable patterns and progressions. After you've experience a ton of these, you'll be able to pick them up easier too.

Don't assume that other people have this hidden "talent". That may be true in some cases; but in most cases, I'm going to say that it comes from experience.

Keep pushing yourself, but please be patient.

Joe

[Hawaii Islander]

Originally Posted by Bazzist

I find if I do it two bars or so at a time (depending on speed of the tune), and either hum the part back to myself or make sure It's stuck in my head, its much easier. I'll find the first note and go from there.

+1

I also can get a good feel for the shape of the fingering after practicing each part a few times, so when I hear something similar I have a good idea where to start and what the new chord shape will be like. It also helps with tying multiple chord shapes together.

[ThunderGod]

I can only play by ear. I can't read music fluently enough to be successful with it. (Old-Dog-New-Trix-Syndrome)

It's like anything though..."Do it till you get it & then do it again" It's called ROTE memorization. You train your ear by mechanical routine.

It can be done and you can surely do it.

[seanm]

You could try simpler music. Start with old country or blues songs. I joined a country jam. Not knowing the songs forces you learn to listen.

And there are tricks. For example, in country music the II almost always goes to the V. You can also watch the guitar players hands for chord shapes (I am trying to get away from this now except for gigs).

[DocBop]

Originally Posted by jazzmonk

Yeah, I'm already singing the melody - it's the only way for me to commit and recall from memory.

Sing the bass line then transcribe from your singing. That pulls the voice-brain-fretboard relationship together.