Playing Old Time Rock & Roll

[Robert Spencer]

I think that if I am able to learn Chuck Berrys Nadine & Fats Dominos (My Girl) Josephine I would then be able to apply that to many other oldies.
I thought i had it figured out but then when I tried to play it the sound I came up with was the same as used on Gordon Lightfoots "Sundown". So I am asking for help.
Can someone offer assistance please. Thanks & take care. Bob

[dtiii]

Hey Bob... I'm not sure that I understand your question.

d

[Robert Spencer]

I`m glad you replied my hopes were beginning ti diminish.
I`m asking for help learning to play these two songs:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2O9kAPBeXx0&feature=fvw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHEd5P39Yoo
Heres a Johnny Rivers version with Joe Osborne on bass
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DQRp...ext=1&index=42
Hope this is more understandable. Take care. Bob

[millsbass5]

May I ask how much experience you have on bass,and music in general??
Sir,please do not take this the wrong way. I mean no disrespect,friend. Look,I'm sure that I'm not telling you something you don't already know..... Those songs,that you are referring to,kind sir,is pretty much THE BEGINNING of Rock'n'roll.....Those songs are stripped down,big time..... Like a hooker on her back,trying to pay a late mortgage payment.
They should be VERY,VERY easy to learn. For anyone. My apologies if I sound harsh.

But,in order to become proficient on an instrument,one must be able to take a little "constructive criticism".

I think that may help..... IF I understand your question correctly,that is.

[thesandman]

My friend, the best way to learn these (and every one after these) songs is to listen and copy them till you have it note for note. They aren't complicated, you'll be able to learn them a step at a time easily, then you'll be on your way.

[Deathblade Eric]

They're all very stripped down - which can be an art in itself (at least for me ). R 'n' R, like any genre, has its own vocabulary & it sounds to me as though you're looking to start building that up. I'm having fun & games getting a convincing Rockabilly "touch" going on - Total immersion is one approach... just listen to as much as you can, you'll start to pick up little phrases here & there, & you'll gently assimilate them.

Nadine is a straightforward "pumping" I-IV-V, & the Fats tune is a straight I-V. Both of them are very minimalist from the bass point of view. Basslines in Chuck Berry's stuff can be hard to pick out - maybe try a sound editing program like Audacity & play with the EQ. Copping the rolling "NooOrlans" feel on the Fats stuff is a good one to nail - try focussing on his left hand.

However I'm a bit confused about the Gordon Lightfoot connection - don't really see where that fits.

Pete.

PS, While you're at it, don't neglect the II-V-I turnaround: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ci4EQDD4CqA

[MalcolmAmos]

Most pop, rock and country will be major - I IV V and roots work. The groove is what makes them sound different.

So grab some fake chord on those songs and follow the chord progressions with root only or perhaps R-5 changing with the chord changes.

Chord changes - for old time rock you can count on a I IV V I progression in the first two lines of a four line verse and then repeat that same progression in the last two lines.

Verse will start with the I and then near the end of the first line the IV will come in. The second line will continue with the IV then the "climax chord" the V7 will come in near the ending of the second line -- and the second line will end back with the I. Repeat that for the last two lines in the verse. That will work for all verses and most of the choruses. I know you are asking where does the IV and V7 come in, what word? With out getting deep into music theory - when you feel like you need a chord change. Feel it. Hated it when the old guys told me to feel it. Sorry.

Grab a I IV V and groove. The groove develops when your head starts moving. If your head is not moving your not grooving.

Have fun.

[mcm]

to play that type of rock n roll, you have to understand how to play blues stuff (muddy waters, howlin wolf, little walter, etc). study some of those cats

[Spin Doctor]

Originally Posted by mcm

to play that type of rock n roll, you have to understand how to play blues stuff (muddy waters, howlin wolf, little walter, etc). study some of those cats

+1 on this

Get the book "Blues Bass" by Ed Friedland and also get, "Jump Blues Bass" by Keith Rosier. Work through those two. I've found the stuff in those books are pretty much all you need to know (for the most part).

[ducknturtle]

You could listen to some jump blues like Louis Jordan, or boogie woogie pianio such as Meade Lux Lewis(study his left hand in order to pick out the bass parts), in order to hear the bass lines better. In both cases I would describe these as proto-rock and roll bass styles. Much of what followed in rock through the fifties, and well into the sixties, derives from standard patterns developed by bass players going all the way back to the twenties.

[Robert Spencer]

I`m happy to have received so much good advise. I do understand twelve bar progression using I-IV-V changes. I can follow the changes throughout the songs easily hearing and predicting them. Its just that I`m at a loss as to which notes on the fretboard will produce the proper sound. I seem to have two tin ears.
I keep trying to get it by bouncing from a seventh fret E on the A string to its fifth relative (B) same fret on the E string ( 4 string EPI JC ). I`m also throwing in an occasional flat seventh (fifth fret A string). I just don`t have a good ear. I have learned to play by memory and usually able to interchange a few simple patterns to fit. I can play a number of patterns in 4/4 time with various chromatic & walking patterns but these seem more like country with a 2/4 beat. I may be wrong about time signatures & its perhaps just the beat that confuses me.
I guess what I am asking is that someone will give me a set of instructions that include note & fret locations. I can get the rest from there.
Yes it is embarassing to have such a small amount of ability/talent and such a fondness for the bass.

Why do I want to play this old music? I was born in 1943 so turned 13 in 56. Rock & I were young together. I seem to be rooted in School Days, Tutti Frutti, Blueberry Hill & Money Honey but my main interest has always been 12 bar blues from Son House to Muddy waters to John Mayall.. Thanks for understanding and for having been so patiently polite. Take care. Bob

[Billnc]

Let me be the first to say, you may not have a tin ear, at least on my computer speakers, the bass is very hard to hear on those links. Easy to play yes, easy to make out WHAT is being played exactly, no.

[Robert Spencer]

Here`s a more modern version of Hello Josephine with an easier to hear bass part. Maybe this one will be better though it lacks that laid back beat that Fats used. That is a variable though once I am able to play it in a basic way. Thanks again & take care. Bob
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78cTY...eature=related

[Robert Spencer]

I`m pretty confused by now. The replies are generally saying that it`s too easy.
I have another example to offer. This is from the Later show featuring Dion with Jools Holland backing on piano & Dave Swift on bass. This is absolutely the best quality clip I have seen on youtube (very high resolution).
I am a photographer that spends a lot of time on photography forums. It has always been standard practice to help those asking for it regardless of their skill level. Its just part of the expected interaction. Once in awhile someone will try to make himself look bigger or smarter by putting down the OP but this action is not condoned or viewed as acceptable. Usually someone then rises to the occasion and gives an apology along with the desired information stating "the only dumb question is the one not asked" or something to that effect. Anyway enough rant. I`m hoping someone will view the clip and respond with information in regard to playing this tune. Thanks & take care. Bob
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPeaiOrh-FA

[deaf pea]

Originally Posted by Robert Spencer

...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPeaiOrh-FA

I can´t hear the bass at all on that clip, except for once in a while (when Dion's NOT singing) . . . FWIW . . . . . .

and I've got a "good ear" . . .

computer speakers suck big time . . .

[Deathblade Eric]

Originally Posted by Robert Spencer

I`m pretty confused by now. The replies are generally saying that it`s too easy.

It kind of is... & therein lies the difficulty. Sometimes Simple is Hard.

I'm a Blues & Blues/Rock player first & foremost, but R 'n' R was what got me into music in the first place (actually this track: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ibeqQA2_Yw - still gives me goosebumps nearly 40 years on!). Lately I've been endeavouring to "get" the particular vibe that goes with R&R and especially its rowdy cousin Rockabilly. It ain't obvious (to me at least) - it's so minimalist that it's tempting to overplay & that ruins the vibe. I've been getting into a lot of Brian Setzer in an attempt to break the back of this, & I'm starting to believe that there may be something in the saying "less is more".

Have a listen to this guy - http://www.petepritchard.co.uk/radiopete.html - he's one of the UK's top R 'n' R DB players (and a very approachable chap too - there's a contact page on his site). Unlike a lot of DB players you can hear him, mainly because he plugs his upright into a 300W Ashdown & a 4 x 10!

Stick with Dave Swift too, he's another that's got this stuff down - anything posted on youtube by "swiftbass" is the man himself. His website is here.

No promises, but I might have a crack at tabbing my take on Nadine over the next day or several.

Keep at it.

Pete.

[Robert Spencer]

Pete said"sometimes Simple is Hard".
That just might be the mouthful of the day. It was the Johnny Rivers version of Josephine ( & also Maybelline) that I was most drawn to & the reason is Joe Osbornes seemingly simple sound on those tracks. Here it is again:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DQRpKZC4SE
Joe is my idol. Simple and clean are his trademarks.
I would be more than a little pleased if you were to take a stab at Nadine( or the songs in the link above) for me. Don`t need to do the entire song. Just the main run. I can do the changes and repeat verse to verse. Thanks & take care. Bob

[halloweenfiend]

Playing "oldstyle" R 'n R basslines can sound very stiff and predictable at times. I find that there is something that is hard to teach, u just need to feel it to make the lines really "swing" which is what really makes a bassline great.

[Deathblade Eric]

Originally Posted by halloweenfiend

Playing "oldstyle" R 'n R basslines can sound very stiff and predictable at times. I find that there is something that is hard to teach, u just need to feel it to make the lines really "swing" which is what really makes a bassline great.

Plus lots on both counts. The guys who can really nail it don't sound particularly "stiff & predictable", there's a vocabulary at work here (same as Blues has it's own vocabulary) & they're fluent in it to the point where it's no longer rote repetition, and can take you by surprise.

As to the "feeling it" bit, I know exactly what you mean... I once did a dep gig where the guit did an old Elvis number. I went away & studied it, got it down & did the gig. "Mystery Train Wreck" is what happened 'cause he didn't tell me it was going to be an instrumental - for me that tune is one where I follow the vocalist for the changes.

Another one is this little gem from Billy Lee Riley: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5S8rvgLAug Try it as a four all the way through & see what happens

I've always viewed Rock 'n' Roll as the offspring of Blues and Country - there's elements of both in there.

Pete.

[Sharko]

Originally Posted by millsbass5

May I ask how much experience you have on bass,and music in general??
Sir,please do not take this the wrong way. I mean no disrespect,friend. Look,I'm sure that I'm not telling you something you don't already know..... Those songs,that you are referring to,kind sir,is pretty much THE BEGINNING of Rock'n'roll.....Those songs are stripped down,big time..... Like a hooker on her back,trying to pay a late mortgage payment.
They should be VERY,VERY easy to learn. For anyone. My apologies if I sound harsh.

But,in order to become proficient on an instrument,one must be able to take a little "constructive criticism".

I think that may help..... IF I understand your question correctly,that is.

Really? You "think that might help?" How is being a dick going to help anyone? "Constructive criticism" is when you critique in order to instruct and help the person progress. What you are doing isn't constructive criticism, it is just being an asshat.