Playing over Sus chords

[Coward Of Reali]

If I'm reading my theory right sus chords is when guitar and piano players re-arrange chords so the fourth doesnt sound dissonant.
But how should a bass player who usually plays a note not chords play over this?

[Correlli]

Mixolydian or Blues scale are said to harmonize with the sus4 chord.

[Aaron Saunders]

Originally Posted by Coward Of Reali

If I'm reading my theory right sus chords is when guitar and piano players re-arrange chords so the fourth doesnt sound dissonant.
But how should a bass player who usually plays a note not chords play over this?

It's simply a rearrangement of the voicings used, nothing really all that bizarre. If it's an Emsus4, then play a over an Em and don't be afraid to hit the 4. It's not required to hit EVERY chord tone described. For instance, if you see a G9 on the sheet, you have options for chord tones with the root, 3rd, 5th, dominant 7th, and 9th. You don't have to take every option though! Also, if you're playing improvised jazz, then you might do well to NOT hit certain notes to keep the harmony a bit more ambiguous so the soloist at the time has options to get a bit "out there" by reharmonizing on the spot and you won't be snagging his collar as runs out to left field for a few bars.

When in doubt -- especially if it's a ballad -- half and whole notes are your friends. Well, actually, if you're a player with any sensitivity, whole and half notes should be your friends in ballads anyway, but that's a whole other discussion.

If you've got a chordal player -- eg, a pianist or a guitarist -- then don't sweat it too much. Even if you don't find your way to that 4, it's probably okay, because if they've got stuff like sus4's written down, then they'd damn well be better playing that sus4 anyway!

[lemur821]

Just be aware that they're probably not playing the third, and are are playing either the second (for a sus2) or the fourth (for a sus4).

[geoffkhan]

The traditionally-taught scale to use over a sus chord is a "mixolydian no third."

Sometimes sus chords will say "add 3rd", so you add the major 3rd into the chord voicing, which is a quite beautiful sound. If you put in a minor 3rd it's just basically a minor 11th.

[Coward Of Reali]

Thanks everyone. I've been playing along to 'Wharf Rat' by the Dead and the Mixolydian and blues scale does sound right.

[theshadow2001]

Could someone tell me where this mixolodian harmonizes with sus4 chords comes from? ie the reasoning behind it. Surely this cant work in every situation a sus4 is played.

[dlloyd]

Originally Posted by theshadow2001

Could someone tell me where this mixolodian harmonizes with sus4 chords comes from? ie the reasoning behind it. Surely this cant work in every situation a sus4 is played.

I'm not sure what Kiwi was meaning, but I think it may have been that they work on suspended dominant chords (since he mentioned mixolydian?)

Minor pentatonic down a 4th would work nicely in this instance... say you've got G7sus (G, A or C for the sus2 or 4, D, F) D minor pentatonic would work (D,F,G,A,C)

[cowsgomoo]

Originally Posted by theshadow2001

Could someone tell me where this mixolodian harmonizes with sus4 chords comes from? ie the reasoning behind it. Surely this cant work in every situation a sus4 is played.

no.. suppose you're playing in C, and there's a chord of Esus4, an E mixolydian will sound a tiny bit wacky because of the harmonic context

I think it works because mixolydian usually sounds good over most things because there aren't many offensive intervals going on... mixolydian doesn't give you any flat 5 tones over the notes of the sus4, no minor 6's or minor 9's either...

if you think about it, a mixolydian mode over a sus4 chord is like a mixolydian over the root, major scale over the 4 and dorian mode over the 5... which are all very open and pleasant sounding modes

[Coward Of Reali]

Is it me or does it seem like Phil Lesh play high up on the neck a lot? Like around the 8th or 9th fret?

[Correlli]

Originally Posted by dlloyd

I'm not sure what Kiwi was meaning, but I think it may have been that they work on suspended dominant chords (since he mentioned mixolydian?)

Minor pentatonic down a 4th would work nicely in this instance... say you've got G7sus (G, A or C for the sus2 or 4, D, F) D minor pentatonic would work (D,F,G,A,C)

Not quite right.

Look into the theory of harmony, particularly stuff about consonant and disconsonant intervals.

Any good theory book on harmony should contain stuff about consonant and disconsonant intervals.

There are some pretty precise guidelines on how chords and scales are used together.

[dlloyd]

Originally Posted by Kiwi Kid

Not quite right.

Look into the theory of harmony, particularly stuff about consonant and disconsonant intervals.

Any good theory book on harmony should contain stuff about consonant and disconsonant intervals.

There are some pretty precise guidelines on how chords and scales are used together.

Hey Chris, I've read quite a number of good books on theory and harmony and never seen anyone explicitly state that mixolydian and blues scales always work on suspended chords. How about you explain it for me?

[Correlli]

sus7 is probably a better example.

Bassline: C sus7 I-IV-V-VIIb

Melody: C mixolydian I-II-III-IV-V-VI-VIIb-VIII

The compatibility is the VIIb and IV

A melody based on C mixolydian would sound less dissonant over Csus7. I think C Ionian would not be as compatibile. C Natural would sound compatibile.

You can alway use cadence at the end of the progression to give the piece a sense of repose.

Al depends on what Key you're in too.

Pentatonic scale would work also.

[cowsgomoo]

Originally Posted by dlloyd

Hey Chris, I've read quite a number of good books on theory and harmony and never seen anyone explicitly state that mixolydian and blues scales always work on suspended chords. How about you explain it for me?

they don't necessarily always work over sus4 chords...

for one thing a 'mixolydian over a sus4' is going to have some elements of 'non-diatonicism' (!) unless it's the V chord of a major key (e.g. Gsus4 in C major)... some types of music can handle all manner of dissonance and alterations, some just don't

e.g. try playing A mixolydian over the Asus4 chord in the progression C - Em7 - Asus4 - G7

'A mixolydian' gives you a C#/Db (a lovely flattened 9th in C major... that's not always going to work) and an F#/Gb.. ( a lovely flat 5 in C major... also not guaranteed to work in all circumstances)

you can't apply such simple rules of thumb on a chord-by-chord basis... the other chords in the piece often provide as much of the harmonic framework and direction as the chord being played at that particular moment