Playing the same solo ideas over and over

[cire113]

I'm a bass player foremost but I've also dabbled in soloing... I can solo
Pretty well over non complex changes... The problem I can't seem to break out of the box with new ideas.. This has been happening last 6 mos or so.. The first 2.5 yrs of my playing didn't feel stuck like I am now.. I know theory the modes.. I even been messing with chromatiscm and "wrong" notes per say...

I cant seem to break out of the box with new ideas..

I've only been playing 3 years is it normal to feel stuck or like ur playing the same licks over and over

[eddododo]

I find that when you get in ruts liike that there are 3 GREAT solutions
1) Listen- listen to an old favorite album, a good local player, a style of music you dislike- these can foster new ideas by breaking your typical synapse cycle.
2) Play simpler ideas- instead of flying over changes, play whole notes or something, try and discover new colors in the chords
its harder to play a simple solo than a technical solo
3) put down the bass for a week- you could just not play, or you could play keyboard, or you could just have NO MUSIC for a week- no heavy listening, no practice, no gigs

good stuff

[Mike Dimin]

Originally Posted by cire113

I'm a bass player foremost but I've also dabbled in soloing... I can solo
Pretty well over non complex changes... The problem I can't seem to break out of the box with new ideas.. This has been happening last 6 mos or so.. The first 2.5 yrs of my playing didn't feel stuck like I am now.. I know theory the modes.. I even been messing with chromatiscm and "wrong" notes per say...

I cant seem to break out of the box with new ideas..

I've only been playing 3 years is it normal to feel stuck or like ur playing the same licks over and over

Learn the melodies. Solos are made up chord tones, scales, melodic motifs, phasing, chromaticism and so much more. If you limit yourself to only scales or chord tones, your solos will eventually feel stale. You seem to have reached a plateau in your playing. This is a natural part of the learning process.

Mike

[pacojas]

paint a house. by the time it's finished your perspective & approach will have changed abit. if that sounds dumb, try another time consuming venture and return with a new attitude.

you can also just play through your plateau if you wish. gl.

[guppy270]

One thing I've tried that sometimes helps me is to "sing" the solo, not out loud, but just to yourself, while you play.

I find I will often play totally differently when I "hum" a solo, as opposed to when I play just letting my fingers go.

[wiseguyst]

Yup, perfectly normal. When you improvise, are you playing patterns and scales, or are your fingers translating a melody that you hear in your head? The latter will provide you with non-sterile results.

Check out this video of Anthony Wellington YouTube - Aguilar Amplification Master Class- Bassist Anthony Wellington's Infinite Field of Ideas

Another tip: get on Pandora and listen to stations that you typically wouldn't like Latin, Bebop, big band or even old country/americana. Listening and playing along with the different progressions, rhythms and swings of the music will expand your vocabulary. I personally see my progressive "line graph" shoot up out of a plateau when I get out of my comfort zone and take gigs outside of my typical genres.

[tangentmusic]

I dont know if playing for only 3 years can qualify you for being in a rut.
Some ruts can last longer than that!
Don't be discouraged. Keep playing. Try different genres or approaches to your playing or soloing.

[Snarf]

All these posts, and no one has mentioned the most important thing.

TRANSCRIBE A SOLO.

Pick something that won't be too hard. Don't transcribe Miles Davis, because he's so bad and his rhythm is so off that it will be pointless. Take a solo by Stan Getz or Bill Evans and write it down and learn it.

Transcribing is hard, and most people hate doing it. But you know what's harder? Screwing around with scales and modes and different combinations of arpeggios and whatnot, and never getting ANYWHERE and banging your head against the wall for years because you just can't formulate a coherent idea. All these other great players CAN and DO form great coherent ideas. If you get those ideas under your fingers, you'll find your own playing and phrasing opening up to new things you never thought you'd be able to do. Take little parts of your transcriptions and transpose them to other keys. Analyze the harmony of the tune they're soloing over, so you can see where else you can apply those ideas.

It's hard work, but the alternative is wallowing in mediocrity forever.

[Russell L]

Good suggestions here, all. Now, I'm gonna suggest something a little different. It's something I like to do to get inspiration. You've heard the expression, "It's all about the groove" before, I'm sure. Well, it is, but there's more to it when you look deeper. Kinda like studying quantum mechanics, lol, but when you break it down, I have found it to all be about "articulation." It's how you say it, how it feels in your hand and fingers, your arm, your body in general. For me, I cannot feel it immediately, but have to play awhile first. It's like warming up, I guess, but different in that I have to discover it. The easiest way for me has been with one and two-bar phrases, anything that can be repeated as a groove. I play it for a long time, allowing my hands, fingers, shoulders, all of me get in sync. Eventually, I begin to feel balanced, so to speak. It's then that I find that my attack on the notes is very precise. I am in control of how things sound. I can get louder or softer, play staccato, play legato, whatever, and be able to feel as if I'm a part of the sound. (When I was a kid, I also used to play until I was daydreaming while still playing, another discussion on it's own, but that is awesome to do).

Aw, this is hard to describe (I need to practice how to say these things). Point is, try being able to say the simplest things with the best expression that you can. It's one thing to just play the notes, but quite another to really say it. Without articulation any music would sound very boring.

When jamming with my buds I find that I can come up with more interesting licks if I'm articulating well. Think about it.

[bassandbeyond]

Mick Goodrick made a suggestion about this in his great book, "The Advancing Guitarist". He said to try improvising at HALF your normal tempo. At that speed, all of your tired old licks will sound so bad that you won't be able to tolerate them, and you might actually have to truly improvise some new ideas. This is now my favorite way to practice improv.

[SLaPiNFuNK]

Originally Posted by Snarf

All these posts, and no one has mentioned the most important thing.

TRANSCRIBE A SOLO.

+1

THIS!

Once you start transcribing solos, you will start to have the lines from those solos influence parts of your "voice"

[cire113]

who are some good guys to transcibe that wont be too difficult?

really miles davis isnt good to transcribe?

[Spin Doctor]

I asked my teacher this same question, i.e. why do all my solos sound the same, and he said part of the situation is that, this is where your personal voice comes from and the other part is that you need to trancribe some other people.

So I've started doing that. I've been working on Jimmy Haslip's stuff with the Yellowjackets since a lot of it is pentatonics and I get pentatonics pretty well. It's not really easy, BTW...

But I will also need to do the chord tone/arpeggio stuff that the older jazz guys did, so for that, I will look to Bill Evans. I used to play piano so I already have a lot of his sheets, albums and CD's laying around.

As far as Miles being bad, I have asked myself that about Miles for years and my completely PERSONAL assessment is that he's not the greatest technical player in the world, but he had a certain sound and more importantly, the ability to get the right people for whatever music he was hearing in his head and then somehow, almost magically, make them play at the top of their abilities and creativity. So once it was said and done, he always ended up with the best music around.

I haven't been playing that long either, but I'd say it's important to transcribe stuff you like, because ultimately, you want to be able to internalize it at some level and you have to be able to stick with it long enough to get something out of it.

[cire113]

during this solo can someone tell me how he does 29 seconds to 35?

at first i thought it was triplets but it sounds like 4 plets? Ofcourse im not gonna play it that fast but i think it sounds cool...

its a signature jimi hendrix lick i think

YouTube - John Frusciante Solo First Part

actually a way better example of this is on 52 seconds to 1:00... this is the lick i wanna learn!!


Also check out this guys solo's i mean yeah their are some super fast licks for guitar.. but alot of his solos are simple pentatonic ideas that sound real good with the phrasing

[Basshoofd]

4plets wat?

[One Bad Monkey]

Put on an album and then sing a solo. You'll find out that you have a ton of ideas that you can easily sing, but not play with the bass (yet). Sing a couple times, and when you find something you like, work on incorporating it onto the bass.

[Snarf]

That Frusciante stuff is guitar specific. There's a lot of bending and double and triple-stopping, and because he's probably using his high B string, combined with the fact that there's bending, makes it impractical to learn a lick like that on the bass.

[Snarf]

Originally Posted by cire113

during this solo can someone tell me how he does 29 seconds to 35?

You're asking the wrong question of the wrong people. You should be saying in your head "I'm going to sit down, listen to this 1000 times, and figure it out," instead of "someone tell me how." But then again, see above about this specific example.

[dalkowski]

Originally Posted by Spin Doctor

II'd say it's important to transcribe stuff you like, because ultimately, you want to be able to internalize it at some level and you have to be able to stick with it long enough to get something out of it.

Bam. That's it.