Playing the Song Through!!!

kynoch · #1 09-07-2006, 10:49 AM

I love nothing more than playing a song though beginning to end perfectly, mine or covers. However, I often find it quite a struggle to get to that stage, hour of working out tunes or writing and planning bass lines. Then getting them to a good playing level takes nothing short of weeks. I have been playing a while now and have played in several different bands, but this process is never changing. I guess what I mean is does it always take AGES to get a track down for anybody else out there? Any advice or tips anyone has???

Pruitt · #2 09-07-2006, 10:58 AM

Heh heh..., it reminds me of a statement I made on my forums that I have that I use for Band communications, when I was talking with one of the guys. He's a drummer that is learning to play Piano and I was talking to him about different tools he could use to help him retain the songs he learns. I should mention, he doen't read music notation.

I told him, "Learning a song is relatively easy, remembering it is the hard part.". lol...

I'm with you though. Like I said in the statement, I don't usually have problems learning new songs, but if I don't play them all the time, I constantly forget little nuances, changes, etc... They come back quickly, but that doesn't help if you only have one chance to play each song. Heh heh...

The only thing that helps me is listening to the songs incessantly and then playing them a few hundred times. That usually hammers it into me. I didn't have as much of a problem with this when I was younger, but now that I'm in my mid-40's, it has become a small issue for me. Not a major problem, as I mostly play jazz these days and can use charts to remind me, but an issue just the same.

Best of luck with it!!

Matthew Bryson · #3 09-07-2006, 11:01 AM

If playing bass was easy, and anybody could sort out a good bass line quickly, then it wouldn't be as cool, now would it?

With that said, it does get easier. The more songs you learn, the better you get at learning songs. Your process may be pretty much the same, but you'll pick things up more quickly.

predmachine · #4 09-07-2006, 11:09 AM

This is a really interesting post. Do you learn a song note for note, or do you learn signature lines (immediately recognized riffs in a song) and then make up the rest. If you do the former, it can be a pain. Unfortunately that's the way I do it---and getting all the little notes right is a large amount of work. Some guys I know learn the progession, signature lines and play a lot of roots, fifths and octaves. That's a lot easier---not necessarily better, but much, much easier.

Albot · #5 09-07-2006, 11:16 AM

I remember songs by making sure I remember the first note of each part (verse, Chorus, ect..) If i nail the change into a new part with the right first note, the rest of the line always comes to me and if not, I at least know how the song goes and can play the chord changes from there. The first note is always the key for me. If I miss it, I end up missing the whole part.

**WillPlay4Food** · #6 09-07-2006, 11:37 AM

I try to learn songs note for note. I can get the basics of a song down after running through it a few times but like kynoch it takes me hours of playing the same song (spread over at least a week) to even get close to note for note.

Of course, the time to full mastery of a song depends on the song. Jenny (867-5309) or Radar Love took me much less time to learn than Sweet Child of Mine or China Grove.

ogrossman · #7 09-07-2006, 11:50 AM

My band has almost 90 tunes on our play list (covers and originals). There's no way I could ever know them all note for note. But when you compare the studio version of a song to a live version by the same band, the parts are rarely the same anyway. There's no 'one right way' to play any song IMO. That being said, there are some songs that I really love and I do learn them note for note. I really get a rush when I play "What Is And Should Never Be" note for note; like walking in JPJ's shoes.

**WillPlay4Food** · #8 09-07-2006, 12:56 PM

Funny you mention JPJ because Led Zep was a band that basically played their songs note for note in concert. Their big jam was Dazed & Confused.

steveb98 · #9 09-07-2006, 01:15 PM

I think it varies from person to person. Also how much importance is put on playing things note-for-note. I think getting the feel is more important than being note-for-note.

What used to amazing me though I was a recording engineer for awhile. The way the good studio players remember the previous takes on songs they are seeing for the first time. The producer would start asking them to do another take and play something from take x and another part of take y, and change the notes 2 and 3 in bar z.

iplaybassguitar · #10 09-07-2006, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by predmachine

This is a really interesting post. Do you learn a song note for note, or do you learn signature lines (immediately recognized riffs in a song) and then make up the rest. If you do the former, it can be a pain. Unfortunately that's the way I do it---and getting all the little notes right is a large amount of work. Some guys I know learn the progession, signature lines and play a lot of roots, fifths and octaves. That's a lot easier---not necessarily better, but much, much easier.

i do the latter, but not just root fifth octave...that for sure is easier but is is so boring to listen to...improvising is probably the coolest thing ever.

ogrossman · #11 09-07-2006, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WillPlay4Food

Funny you mention JPJ because Led Zep was a band that basically played their songs note for note in concert. Their big jam was Dazed & Confused.

Funny you mention Dazed & Confused because I learned the bass part under the violin bow part note for note but our lead guitarist is playing an extended version off the live version! *sheesh* (and man is that bass part at the end of the solo a killer).

mgray87 · #12 09-07-2006, 02:33 PM

" I guess what I mean is does it always take AGES to get a track down for anybody else out there?"

Take it from me: It takes a lot less time if you suck

ba-dum-ba-dum · #13 09-07-2006, 02:50 PM

I say it depends on the song. If the bassline is the immediately recognizable "signature" of the song, best leave it along.... But if you're covering a 'Sabbath song... I'd feel free to walk around at will (in key of coarse), god knows geezer did

\m/

iplaybassguitar · #14 09-07-2006, 07:50 PM

i wouldnt say geezer walked...maybe changed the bassline, but that doesnt make it walking.

Kickin'Fruit · #15 09-07-2006, 07:53 PM

Break it up into smaller sections and then you will have an easier time remembering it.

pretaanluxis · #16 09-07-2006, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pruitt

"Learning a song is relatively easy, remembering it is the hard part."

I agree with you 100%!

labgnat · #17 09-07-2006, 10:51 PM

i'm glad to see it takes others a while to learn a song, i thought i just sucked. i'm still pretty much not very good tho

kynoch · #18 09-08-2006, 04:43 AM

Usually I learn a song Note for Note, Then later mess about with it. I am working through The Mars Volta's First CD (Deloused). And they are Intense bass lines and often fast.

I am Glad to hear that it is not just me though, I kinda knew it wasn't my own problem, but you know how it goes.

kynoch · #19 09-08-2006, 04:48 AM

I tell you what does REALLY Suck though and that is having learnt a song through and recorded it PERFECT and then for some strange reason the next time you play the bass line even the next day it is like you haven't learnt the track at all and it is Incredibly Sloppy, Anyone get that?????

**WillPlay4Food** · #20 09-08-2006, 06:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ogrossman

Funny you mention Dazed & Confused because I learned the bass part under the violin bow part note for note but our lead guitarist is playing an extended version off the live version! *sheesh* (and man is that bass part at the end of the solo a killer).

Funny you mention a violin bow. I played violin for 3 years while I was in elementary school.

I do love some of the funkier parts of the whole Dazed & Confused composition.

Right now though I'm trying to get down the walking parts of The Ocean. I think I've finally nailed the main riff so it's just the walking that starts about 2/3rds of the way through the song and I might actually have it down.