Playing songs in E-flat: what do you do?

[Vandelay]

Our band is adding a couple of songs in the key of E-flat: Stevie Wonder's "Superstition", and the Spinners' "I'll Be Around". I know there are lots of popular songs in this key, and I wonder how you guys handle them? Do you leave your bass in standard tuning and just play the E-flat notes an octave higher? Or do you bring a 2nd bass with you that's tuned down a half-step? Other suggestions?

[MonetBass]

I've never covered those tunes myself, but the bands I've seen cover them just play it up a half-step in E. Makes things easier, as long as the vocalist can cover.

[Scottgun]

Well it is the same problem for the rest of the band, What does the guitarist do? Most bands will usually just play it in E.

But then some bands detune to e-flat for everything to give the singer a break or to sound more crunchy on the guitars.



Scott

[VanillaO]

What he said. It doesn't matter what key you play the song in. It's basically the same in EADG as it is in BEAD in my opinion.. Otherwise, I'd suggest detuning a half step on each key.. or is the problem that you need to go between them both interchangably?

[thewanderer24]

If it's one song, like Superstition, (which really has one note lower than the E) I see no big deal in playing the Eb up an octave higher. I have done this a lot. You have to be creative and use your ear.

Changing your tuning on the fly at a gig or even swapping basses between songs can be a MUCH bigger deal than changing that one note. Also, changing your tuning for that one song to be easier can make a lot of other songs a lot tougher.

[steveb98]

No you don't detune your bass to play in Eb. There are twelve keys you going to retune for each key??? If you start to play lots of Motown tunes you will be playing in lots of flat keys. Stevie Wonder and Michael Jackson have high voices and sing in keys women use a lot. If you ever play Jazz or with a horn section you will be playing in Bb and Eb a lot. You need to learn to play in all keys.

[AJ Brown]

I play it a half-step lower on my standard-tuned 5-string.

[YogSothoth]

Originally Posted by steveb98

No you don't detune your bass to play in Eb. There are twelve keys you going to retune for each key??? If you start to play lots of Motown tunes you will be playing in lots of flat keys. Stevie Wonder and Michael Jackson have high voices and sing in keys women use a lot. If you ever play Jazz or with a horn section you will be playing in Bb and Eb a lot. You need to learn to play in all keys.

Sure, you're right about keys and all that stuff.

But what if you wanted to play a Sepultura or Slayer song in Eb? You'd really play it an octave higher? I think if anyone did that, you'd be missing out on a whole lotta bass. Maybe you could get away with that in jazz, but not in metal.

I guess my point is that even if you can play in every key, sometimes you need the lower octave to make it sound right.

Of course, the OP was talking about jazz songs, but I just wanted to point that out.

[steveb98]

Originally Posted by YogSothoth

Sure, you're right about keys and all that stuff.

But what if you wanted to play a Sepultura or Slayer song in Eb? You'd really play it an octave higher? I think if anyone did that, you'd be missing out on a whole lotta bass. Maybe you could get away with that in jazz, but not in metal.

I guess my point is that even if you can play in every key, sometimes you need the lower octave to make it sound right.

Of course, the OP was talking about jazz songs, but I just wanted to point that out.

Buy an octave pedal to keep the metal types bouncing. Songs are written and arranged with the instruments in mind so I doubt someone would write Metal in Eb or they would specify a drop tuning. Now when working with singers doing covers then songs get tranposed into sorts of keys. Then you just do what you have to, can't worry about timbre. The audience won't know or care, if it sounds close they will be happy. Talk to an audience you'll be surprised how few notice even drastic mistakes and especially minor things like timbre or range. The few that do will end up being other musicians who are fans of orignal band.

in fact the ear accept change like range and timbre as long as the notes are what it expects. Take a bassline that goes up in pitch. When playing the line take the last few notes of the line and drop them an octave. No one will flinch. The ear hears the pitches it expects and could care less they just dropped and octave. You can do the reverse and take a line going down and shoot the last few note up an octave. No one cares. The ear and brain aren't that picky and only a few things they expect to hear.

[Alvaro Martín Gómez A.]

I mostly play a 5-string, so playing a song in Eb (or Ab like Kiss' "Cold Gin", for instance) without detuning isn't a problem for me. But the "problem" here lies on the guitarist: I'd ask him to learn the song in Eb, and that can be done on lots of tunes with not so much problem (We played "Superstition" -the Stevie Ray Vaughan version- that way). But there are other songs that feature open strings-based riffs, and in that case we play the song in E. That happened with another SRV tune: "Scuttle Buttin' ", which main guitar riff becomes very awkward to play without using open strings (actually, I think it cannot be done).

[BAZZMAN800]

MOST BANDS WILL PLAY THESE IN E....HOWEVER..YOU MIGHT WANT TO GET AN OCTAVE DIVIDER---EBS IS GOOD--IT'LL GIVE YOU THE BOTTOM AND CAN DO A LOW BUDGET SYNTH COVER...WHEN I PLAYED A 4 STRING..I WOULD DO A DROP D TUNING USING THE D STRING AS A QUICK REFERENCE..THIS IS DEPENDENT ON YOUR HEARING SKILLS OR VENUE..I HOPE THIS IS SOMEWHAT HELPFUL...

[jeremyr]

I tune down a half note.

5 string tuned

Bb-Eb-Ab-Db-Gb

[SteveC]

When I was playing 4 string I had a HipShot on so I could just flip it down for the Eb. I kept the rest of the bass in standard tuning and just made the adjustment for that song. Worked fine.

I play a 5 almost exclusively these days so it's not an issue.

[thewanderer24]

Originally Posted by BAZZMAN800

MOST BANDS WILL PLAY THESE IN E

I disagree. If you are playing with horns, you are gonna play A LOT in flat keys.

[Jazzdogg]

Originally Posted by Vandelay

Our band is adding a couple of songs in the key of E-flat: Stevie Wonder's "Superstition", and the Spinners' "I'll Be Around". I know there are lots of popular songs in this key, and I wonder how you guys handle them? Do you leave your bass in standard tuning and just play the E-flat notes an octave higher? Or do you bring a 2nd bass with you that's tuned down a half-step? Other suggestions?

An open E-string resonates at 41.2Hz, while the Eb above it is about 77.8Hz - a difference neither the audience nor your bandmates are likely to find remarkable.

Eb is one of the keys in which tunes are routinely written to accommodate horn players and vocalists. For example, Bb-horn players have to transpose up a whole step from concert pitch to accommodate their instruments, which makes the keys preferred by guitarists (B,E,A,D,G become C#, F#, B, E, and A) tiring for horn players to read; learning to play in D, Db, and Eb is far less awkward for bassists than it is for horn players to play in C# and F#.

I tend to regard guitarists and bassists with greater esteem when they are proficient in all keys, and thoughtful enough to consider the needs of their bandmates when selecting key signatures.

With a little practice, it'll become second nature

[seanm]

While I have never played those tunes, my band has one song in Eb. I just play up the octave. The songwriter can play bass so he knows the limitations. He would not have written it in Eb if he wanted me in the lower octave. And he probably has to go up an octave too, so I will still sound lower.

I quite often play songs in E up an octave too just to give myself more note choices.

[Bruce Lindfield]

Originally Posted by steveb98

No you don't detune your bass to play in Eb. There are twelve keys you going to retune for each key??? If you start to play lots of Motown tunes you will be playing in lots of flat keys. Stevie Wonder and Michael Jackson have high voices and sing in keys women use a lot. If you ever play Jazz or with a horn section you will be playing in Bb and Eb a lot. You need to learn to play in all keys.

I've always thought like this and then I saw a "Bass Player" mag interview recently, with Nathan Watts.

So he said how whenever he plays with Stevie Wonder he tunes his 4-string down a semi-tone, so the lowest open string is Eb.

I tried this and some of the trickier bass lines suddenly seemed so much easier!!


"“Do I Do,” 1982 That was done at Wonderland. Stevie was real comfortable with the whole band at that point, so we just went in and jammed and played what we wanted. He gave me more freedom on that song than on just about any other, and with [drummer] Dennis Davis laying it down strong and simple, there was a lot of room for me to stretch. I used my ’79 MusicMan StingRay, recorded direct, with no effects. The nasty, growly sound is just the tone of the bass, plus the strings being tuned down to Eb, which added more rattle and fret noise. In the video we shot, they had us all in black on a dark background; I wore a white cowboy hat because I wanted to make sure I got seen! [Laughs.]"



Of course I wouldn't do it normally...unless maybe I landed that dream gig with Stevie!!

[seanm]

Originally Posted by Bruce Lindfield

I've always thought like this and then I saw a "Bass Player" mag interview recently, with Nathan Watts.

So he said how whenever he plays with Stevie Wonder he tunes his 4-string down a semi-tone, so the lowest open string is Eb.

I tried this and some of the trickier bass lines suddenly seemed so much easier!!

Of course I wouldn't do it normally...unless maybe I landed that dream gig with Stevie!!

Actually, if I had to play a lot of Eb, I might tune down to. But I wouldn't do it for two or three songs.

Or you could keep a second tuned down bass. Again, I wouldn't bother for two or three songs.

I used to play some songs, mainly Pink Floyd, that needed drop D. For the first gig I brought a second bass that was tuned down. After that I just tuned down when needed. The hassle of having a second bass just wasn't worth it to me. Although if that band had kept going I probably would have bought a Hipshot de-tuner.

[Bruce Lindfield]

I agree - although if Stevie asked me to play with his band - I'd do whatever he said!!

[dougjwray]

Personally, I never deviate from standard tuning. And the key almost always depends on whatever singer I'm playing with-- lots of cover material gets the key changed to make the singer comfortable.
I used a 5-string almost exclusively from about 1995-2003, during which time playing a low Eb was obviously no problem. Lately, though, I've drifted back to a 4-string, and having to go up to the higher Eb isn't a problem. Anyway, I always used the lower range on the 5-string more for the timbre of the low notes than for comfort or convenience. More of a compositional or arranging thing.

BTW, I've always had a theory that Stevie likes Eb minor because of the feel of that pentatonic scale on the keyboard (all black keys) (?) (Easier for a sightless person.)