Please explain the minor scales for me

[Howard K]

Yes, I agree, which was why I posted on the names of the minor scales. For me, that helped me understand them better. Obviously the same post fell short because, I admit, I couldnt be bothered to go into the neccessary detail to make the post useful to a complete beginner

I have been lucky enough to have had very clear, logical teaching over the years which has hepled me greatly. The start of which came from our very own Steve Lawson on the ask a pro forum.
That said, I have also put in a great deal of effort to understand the theory side of music. More than many others I have met in similar situation to myself, i.e. an amateur musician.

I also think that perhaps some people underestimate the amount of work and time it takes required to learn this stuff. I mean, I found it all very logical and pretty stright forward from the word go, BUT I remember getting back from those fisrt few lessons where I started down this route, I stayed up until 3am or so practicing what I had been taught for 5 hours or so.

So yeah, it is logical and relatively easy, but you still have to work at it.. which is good, cause it wouldnt be worth working for otherwise

[edfriedland]

Originally Posted by Howard K

Irony? From an American?! Now I've seen everything.

Anyway, yeah I was being a bit of dillon not explaining myself fuily, I dont usually do that. I was just about to leave work

Irony? My middle name. Actually my second middle name, the first one is Washy, and my third one is Foldy.

Seriously, this is all very interesting to me because I'm at work on some beginner theory material for the magazine. Trying to find the right sequencing of events, and explanations that are clear and correct is a tough business. In a few months, you'll see something that hopefully fills this gap.

[Howard K]

Originally Posted by edfriedland

Irony? My middle name. Actually my second middle name, the first one is Washy, and my third one is Foldy.

Seriously, this is all very interesting to me because I'm at work on some beginner theory material for the magazine. Trying to find the right sequencing of events, and explanations that are clear and correct is a tough business. In a few months, you'll see something that hopefully fills this gap.

You're middle name is irony? Amazing! Mine is Peter.

To be honest, I've not read that bit about 'why minor scales are so named' anywhere, I figured it out for myself. It is perfectly logical though, harmonic minor is the development of natural minor for harmonic purposes and melodic minor is more melodic, as it removes that aug 2nd that tends to overwhelm a melody. So I guess it is not 'a fact' per say, but a way of understanding it.

Man, it would make my day if you used something I dreamed up in one of your articles. I loved "salsa subbing" btw, made me chuckle, I thought of it the other day when my mrs-to-be said I wasnt aloud to take any musical instruments whatsoever on our honeymoon!

[BassChuck]

Originally Posted by Phil Smith

Let's not leave out the Dorian minor.

C D Eb F G A Bb C

This looks like a C Dorian scale to me. Whats the difference between a Dorian scale and Dorian minor?

All Dorian scales don't have to start on D.

[Alvaro Martín Gómez A.]

According to Phil's post, I think he calls it "Dorian minor" because the Dorian scale has a minor flavor due to the minor third in it. The dorian scale is the natural minor with the sixth grade raised by a half step, which matches Phil's example, so I think there's no difference and would be sort of redundant to call a scale "Dorian minor".

[Phil Smith]

Originally Posted by BassChuck

This looks like a C Dorian scale to me. Whats the difference between a Dorian scale and Dorian minor?

All Dorian scales don't have to start on D.

What's the difference between an Aoelian Scale and a Natural Minor?

According to Phil's post, I think he calls it "Dorian minor" because the Dorian scale has a minor flavor due to the minor third in it. The dorian scale is the natural minor with the sixth grade raised by a half step, which matches Phil's example, so I think there's no difference and would be sort of redundant to call a scale "Dorian minor".

It's a minor scale in the same way that the melodic minor is a minor scale and they only differ by one note the 7th. The term "Dorian Minor" isn't obscure either as a quick Google will indicate.

[Tom]

I'll try to keep this as simple and down-to-earth as I can... If it's confusing, I'm probably not explaining it well enough.

Just like anything else, it's based on getting a certain sound. When you write something in natural minor, you usually stick to the notes inside the scale, so Bach wouldn't have written a piece in D Harmonic Minor (though maybe a more modern composer/player would). The raised seventh degree was traditionally preferred when leading to the tonic because people tend to feel it "pull" more strongly. Play a minor scale up to the seventh degree and just hold it... then finally hit the tonic. Then do the same with a major scale. If the theory is correct, then you might hear the stronger pull in the major scale because of the non-flatted 7th. It's because of that pull that composers traditionally favored the "leading tone," which was named for the exact reason that it leads naturally into the tonic. This is the "practical" reason behind melodic minor.

Here's the confusing part, though: if you're not moving into the tonic, then you don't need to raise the seventh. The entire point of the raised seventh in minor was to create that expectation in the listener... so when you're moving away from the tonic (down the scale), you use the natural minor scale. If you see the whole harmonic/melodic minor scale written, it usually descends in natural minor.

Getting away from the theory... grab something that you want to play chords on and pound out quick i-v-i progression. Try: a minor, e minor, a minor. Alright. Now try it with the raised seventh (this is harmonic minor): a minor, E Major, a minor. The difference in sound between those two progressions is the "practical" point behind harmonic minor.

What's the real-world use of it all? It's just more sounds at your disposal. I will admit, though, (and some of my music teachers would stab me in the face if they saw me write this) that the non-raised seventh just sounds better to me in some situations; especially if I'm playing rock.

I know Joe didn't ask for the theory, but I think that if theory isn't closely related to the practicality, it's a pretty bogus theory.

[Alvaro Martín Gómez A.]

Originally Posted by Tom

I will admit, though, (and some of my music teachers would stab me in the face if they saw me write this) that the non-raised seventh just sounds better to me in some situations; especially if I'm playing rock.

That's because most rock tunes aren't based on "pure" (Aeolian, harmonic, melodic) minor scales but on the minor pentatonic scale (Let's think of the most common key: E minor pentatonic => E-G-A-B-D. No raised 7th here). That's the typical rock scale and maybe you're very used to that. This reminds me of a common situation with a very famous ballad written by a famous brazilian singer. It's in B minor and at a certain point, the melody goes like C# - B - C# - C# - B - A (natural) - B - B (See below and listen it HERE). That's OK and sounds great. But for an unknown reason to me, Mariachi bands decided to do their own version of the song and replaced the A natural by an A# (I don't have a recording of this). It sounds horrible to me! I really hate that version, but that isn't because there's something "technically" wrong with it. It's just that I'm so used to the original version and this one alters the original feel of the tune in a not so pleasant way (to me).

[theshadow2001]

Tim and Tom both great posts keep it up. Its hard to find any resources that will explain as well as you have.