Is it possible to have a good bassline without the drums?

Kickin'Fruit · #1 01-29-2007, 02:55 PM

I'm trying to write a bassline for this song:
www.rit.edu/~grh0060/AnEvilMind.mp3

Problem is, I am trying to follow the guitar rhythm (or go with a slow one of my own) but I think what I try lacks a beat at all. Is there any help you can give me to not make it sound so cluttered and add some feeling to this track?

Thanks for any help.

I'll post a crappy version of the recording I did if it can give you any insight on how very untalented I am. (fretbuzz, bad timing etc.)

Jezz8me · #2 01-29-2007, 05:27 PM

you can have an awesome bassline without drums but drums are needed to boots the bass as the bass is needed to boost drums. all though not necessary a drummer could be the key to awsomeness

Introvox · #3 01-29-2007, 07:36 PM

Nice song, very ambient.

Personally, I wouldn't try to groove it up too much, as you mentioned your timing is an issue at this point (recommend practice with a metronome) trying a rhythmic line will just be awfull...

Even though timing is a forte of mine, I think the guitar has enough rhythmic quality of it's own, try long melodic notes (not always the root) up to 4 beats etc. with tasty little runs and slides strategically placed as compliment...less moving around will also lead to less fret buzz...as you mentioned this is an issue.

Try to get lots of "MWAH factor" in there (can help you with this if you need)

Fill out the Bottom which I find is lacking in the posted recording...

Hope this helps...can't wait to hear the final cut...

Kickin'Fruit · #4 01-29-2007, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Introvox

Nice song, very ambient.

Personally, I wouldn't try to groove it up too much, as you mentioned your timing is an issue at this point (recommend practice with a metronome) trying a rhythmic line will just be awfull...

Even though timing is a forte of mine, I think the guitar has enough rhythmic quality of it's own, try long melodic notes (not always the root) up to 4 beats etc. with tasty little runs and slides strategically placed as compliment...less moving around will also lead to less fret buzz...as you mentioned this is an issue.

Try to get lots of "MWAH factor" in there (can help you with this if you need)

Fill out the Bottom which I find is lacking in the posted recording...

Hope this helps...can't wait to hear the final cut...

Thanks a lot. I was thinking long melodic notes also but i didn't know how to put it into words, I'm glad someone else thinks the same. Also when you say fill out the bottom do you mean that I should be playing the lower end of the song? I have been playing it in the higher octaves just because i thought it sounded brighter with the guitars but again it sounds a lot different with drums. My E string is a bit dead because I always play on it so it could be the factor in me straying away from the low.

Also, I'm interested what you mean by mwah*. I rolled the treble off my bass and I get some mwah, I think, right?

Introvox · #5 01-29-2007, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kickin'Fruit

Thanks a lot. I was thinking long melodic notes also but i didn't know how to put it into words, I'm glad someone else thinks the same. Also when you say fill out the bottom do you mean that I should be playing the lower end of the song? I have been playing it in the higher octaves just because i thought it sounded brighter with the guitars but again it sounds a lot different with drums. My E string is a bit dead because I always play on it so it could be the factor in me straying away from the low.

Also, I'm interested what you mean by mwah*. I rolled the treble off my bass and I get some mwah, I think, right?

Happy to help, by filling the bottom, I mean low notes yes, far out of the range of the GTR, I like the guitar(s) on this recording...let it fly...a quick renewal of your dead E might be just a boil away (5 - 10 mins in boiling water with touch of vinegar)

MWAH has not much to do with settings, it's a plucking finger thing:

MWAHs are notes that seem to grow as you sustain, just like saying the word mmmmmwwwwaaaaahhhhhh

Easier on a fretless but can be acheived on fretted too...using more of the pad of your finger, and close to your highest fret, (I've always found it easier to show than explain)

When you acheive it, it will litterally sound like the word "MWAH" and you'll know what it means...takes a little practice, and sounds awesome!

Still here for a bit if you need me

Scalestein · #6 02-05-2007, 01:54 PM

On first listen I think it would be neat if you played along with bits and pieces of the vocal melody. Just play along with the voice to accent a line here and there and like you and Introvox were thinking lots of long notes.

kipsus · #7 02-06-2007, 02:11 AM

Very nice song! And I tend to agree with Scalestein

spindizzy · #8 02-06-2007, 06:42 AM

The answer to your direct question is yes...of course. I hear a dozen different directions that could be taken (author sensitivity is required though if it is not your composition, you don't want to change someone elses vision more than they want it changed) from a bassline that drives and moves with changes in an effort to make it less ambient as well as a more mellow approach that plays off that ambience.

The truth is one of the great powers that bass (and sometimes in combination with other members of a rhythim section) is the ability to take something basic and move it in multiple different directions musically.

Love to show you what I mean but I am reluctant to kidnap your tune to form a demonstration. What I normally do is learn the basic chord structure and then try and come up with as many styles, grooves, and options for the melody as I can until I find something that fits with the composers vision or my tastes or both.

spindizzy · #9 02-06-2007, 06:46 AM

I should add that you must always remember that bass is as much a rhythm instrument as it is a part of the chord and melodic structure. This means that much of what you play is a part of the rhythmic structure and therefore can be in direct interplay with a drummer or can be the source of time and rhythm all by itself.

lunchmeat317 · #10 02-06-2007, 06:39 PM

Alright...

First post.

I registered on this forum because of that song. I'd been thinking about it, but that song made me go and do it - I really like it, man, i've been listening nonstop because, I dunno, I guess it just grew on me. It's got great rhythm, and the melodies and polyphony are awesome, seriously. Got me inspired to get out my bass...I wrote a bassline for it as well, just because I could.

My suggestion...don't overdo the beat, but don't underdo it either. I realized that I really liked the sound of an offset quarter note...I can't really describe it. I guess I could say play a beat an eighth before the first and third beats...like, uh, AND one and two AND three and four AND one and two AND three and for AND...get me?

It really captures the feel of the beat your guitarist has going. As for the bassline, I pretty much just played the root of whatever he was doing, and if I had to step out of my rhythm to follow him, I did. Made for a nice little line. During the bridge, I did a little ascending line until the other guitar kicked in, at which point I played the root notes in the same octave as the guitar.

I dunno - you may not need any of this at all. I just wanted to say I really like the song, was inspired by it, and wish it was mine...

Wish I had a way to record that bassline.

Kickin'Fruit · #11 02-06-2007, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lunchmeat317

Alright...

First post.

I registered on this forum because of that song. I'd been thinking about it, but that song made me go and do it - I really like it, man, i've been listening nonstop because, I dunno, I guess it just grew on me. It's got great rhythm, and the melodies and polyphony are awesome, seriously. Got me inspired to get out my bass...I wrote a bassline for it as well, just because I could.

My suggestion...don't overdo the beat, but don't underdo it either. I realized that I really liked the sound of an offset quarter note...I can't really describe it. I guess I could say play a beat an eighth before the first and third beats...like, uh, AND one and two AND three and four AND one and two AND three and for AND...get me?

It really captures the feel of the beat your guitarist has going. As for the bassline, I pretty much just played the root of whatever he was doing, and if I had to step out of my rhythm to follow him, I did. Made for a nice little line. During the bridge, I did a little ascending line until the other guitar kicked in, at which point I played the root notes in the same octave as the guitar.

I dunno - you may not need any of this at all. I just wanted to say I really like the song, was inspired by it, and wish it was mine...

Wish I had a way to record that bassline.

Absolutely, and what you thought on the bridge is exactly what I've been doing. Our guitarist doesn't like how the whole song is coming out and it's possible we won't play it at our show friday. I really hope we can get it together by then because so far everyone has been loving it.

lunchmeat317 · #12 02-06-2007, 07:45 PM

You guys should play it. Before you know it, I'll be seeing you on The Tonight Show or something like that.

Song not going as you'd like it to? Try harmonizing in certain parts...like, at the end of the chorus, (especially at the end of the song), right when it would hit the main riff before the verse, instead of going down to an A, I went up a C#, on the 4th fret of the A string. It sounded really good near the end of the song; created a bit of tension, which I built up by doing a little pentatonic walk (C#, D#, F#, G#) up the scale, and then resolving back to the C# right on the beat where the riff comes in. Bass harmony can sound really nice, and alot of the time it's unexpected. I don't know what chords I created there (if I stopped to think about it, I could figure it out with time, but psh, whatever) but it really complimented the vocals.

Or so I thought. *shrug*

Play the song!

Kickin'Fruit · #13 02-06-2007, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lunchmeat317

You guys should play it. Before you know it, I'll be seeing you on The Tonight Show or something like that.

Song not going as you'd like it to? Try harmonizing in certain parts...like, at the end of the chorus, (especially at the end of the song), right when it would hit the main riff before the verse, instead of going down to an A, I went up a C#, on the 4th fret of the A string. It sounded really good near the end of the song; created a bit of tension, which I built up by doing a little pentatonic walk (C#, D#, F#, G#) up the scale, and then resolving back to the C# right on the beat where the riff comes in. Bass harmony can sound really nice, and alot of the time it's unexpected. I don't know what chords I created there (if I stopped to think about it, I could figure it out with time, but psh, whatever) but it really complimented the vocals.

Or so I thought. *shrug*

Play the song!

I was just talking to my friend who wrote it and really it's not working out in the band the way we are playing it. In practice it doesn't sound anything like that with electric guitars instead of acoustic and the drums are pretty agressive, I find myself having to play too fast and it bothers me. It really is a great song...

**butchblack** · #14 02-06-2007, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kickin'Fruit

I was just talking to my friend who wrote it and really it's not working out in the band the way we are playing it. In practice it doesn't sound anything like that with electric guitars instead of acoustic and the drums are pretty aggressive, I find myself having to play too fast and it bothers me. It really is a great song...

It actually sounds to me like a song that should be played on acoustic guitars, not electrics, sort of early Zeplinesque. I was hearing a slide from B to E held for 6 beats with a fill for the next 2 when it changes to changes every 4 beats try a root 3, 4 fill. Leave space to breath remember sometimes less is more. I like the basic concept, don't give up on it to quickly.

Butch