Practice Advice needed.

[hkronin]

Quick background. I've been playing for many years (since late 80s), but not seriously. Physically, I have good technique and some decent chops, I can physically play just about anything if given a day or so to work out the parts.

I also understand music theory, and can play arpeggios, scales, and modes on the bass.

Here is my problem. I grew up playing music in the school band, which was primarily sight reading. I have always played bass with a similar approach I have learned over a hundred different songs on bass from sheet music, or figuring out by ear, BUT, I cannot improvise to save my life!!

I have a solid understanding of music theory, scales, modes, chords, arpeggios, etc. If you called out a chord or mode, I could play it for you on the bass, however, that knowledge has not made the transition into my playing. If I hear a chord progression, I am easily lost. At best, I might be able to outline some basic triads, I have a very difficult time figuring out where to go on the bass.

I have concluded that while my technique and rhythm are very strong, I need much more practice developing my ear, and improvisation abilities.

Knowing what you know, what would be your best advice for me? When I go home tonight, what is the BEST way to spend my time to improve my weak areas? I greatly appreciate your help!!! Please be as specific as possible.

Thank you!

[BigOldHarry]

My opinion?

You are *lucky*. You can read, which seems to be what separates the men from the boys, so to speak. If your improv or playing by ear is weak, that's much easier to deal with than trying to learn to read, me tell you!

Were *I* your teacher, I'd tell give you a list of tunes to learn, tunes that are heavy on riffs that are useful in many situations. I'd also have you practice playing with arpeggiated modes over chords - I learned years ago that you can literally play a 1 to 3 arpeggiation of a mode over the correct chord and it will, with almost no variance, sound like a solo (provided you don't do it for more than a few measures).

I'd also have you practice *real* simple stuff - like getting the feel for grooving with a particular beat. Get a drum machine, have it do a *simple* 4/4 beat and then play with simple pentatonic grooves. No need to get crazy for laying down a good beat - remember the oft repeated saying: All the money is made below the 5th fret.

And don't forget that space is good too - I think it was DeBussy that said "music is the space between the notes" - Much great music has *big* space between the notes, and I've always tried to incorporate that into my playing.

Hope that helps - I'm sure you'll get other advice.

good luck

[mambo4]

from my standard cut and paste reply to basic theory questions:

I cannot emphasize this idea enough: The answer to this common question is to LEARN AND ANALYZE BASS LINES BY THE MASTERS. Once you understand what Jamerson (for example) did with a particular set of changes, these ideas become added to your tool set, to use, change, blend and create your own voice.

So learn and anylize lots of bass lines in your style of choice.

[hkronin]

Thanks both of you for your replies. I appreciate you taking the time to help out a fellow musician. I have been playing too long, simply learning basslines and melodies on the bass, without understanding their relationship to the chord progression in the song. I need to rectify that.

Since I will be studying songs to analyze how the basslines move over the chord progressions, can anyone recommend some good artists/albums that would be good for this purpose?

[runmikeyrun]

start with simple stuff to improvise to, like old sabbath and slower songs rooted in E (Workin' Man, Tom Sawyer), stuff with 3-5-7 fret or other simple progressions/changes. Play along with the songs on your cd player with the bass turned down. Just start slow and work up to more complicated stuff. Knowing scales will help but is not necessary.

[Corporate Boy]

I would recommend not trying to read music anymore. It sounds llike you are satisfied with where you are at with it. Now try learning everything by ear. Depending on how far you want to improve your ear and your improvisation, you might want to focus on studying jazz. Jamie Aebersold<?> has a great series of books where you can jam out to cool jazz and blues chord progressions. Maiden Voyage and Nothin' But the Blues are a good starting point. Also try learning the melody to a song. Maybe learn to sing it and see if that opens any doors for you.

good luck.

[JTE]

You say you know scales and modes. Can you hear something and know it's dorian mode? If so, that's how youi'll learn to play. If not, you really don't know dorian mode at all.

So, do this. Take a simple scale or even better, an arpeggio. Play it over two octaves. But instead of just playing it, do it really slow and SING each note BEFORE you play it. Don't worrry if you sing like me (once described as "a duet with Yoko Ono and LInda McCartney"), the idea is to have the SOUND of the next note fixed in your head before you play it. Do this with everything you play- any bass line, riff, melody, etc. Fix that note in your head.

Then start with mambo4's suggestion. Learn some basslines, but don't just figure out how to physically play them. Look at them in context of the chord, figure out what scale they're from, determine where the key changes are, etc.

Play melodies by ear. The problem most folks have with copping bass lines by ear (besides just plain being lazy so the post a tab request instead of sweating it out themselves) is that they don't really know how it sounds. So, instead of listening to "Anethsia - Pulling Teeth" or "Portrait of Tracy" a million times, start with something easy. You do know what "Happy Birthday" sounds like right? OK, so play a D, like the one at the 5th fret. That's your first note.

||: Now, sing the next note- don't worry about anything except the second note. It's gotta be either higher, lower, or the same as the first one. Determine which way it's gotta go, then try one. Is the one you tried correct? If it is, then go to the next one. If it ain't, then try another one. :||

That's the process. Sing the notes you're playing so your ear and hand learn how they work together. Learn other melodic bits (melodies to songs, bass lines, commercial music, whatever) one note at a time.

Put the time and energy in. You have a great background already, so just start using it.

jte

[Torch7]

Originally Posted by JTE

You say you know scales and modes. C
Sing the notes you're playing so your ear and hand learn how they work together.

+1 that's it.

Practice playing what you hum or sing. I haven't seen many bass players who couldn't hum some sweet improvisations... being able to work it out with your fingers, takes practice.

Sounds like you have acquired some solid knowledge of the years, once you begin to implement what JTE suggests... you will begin to have numerous Eureka! moments...

[MatticusMania]

My girlfriend and another guitar playing friend of mine both have this same problem.
They were both classically trained, my gf at piano, and my friend Melinda on guitar. Theyre both excellent musicians, but both are admittedly poor improv players.

Myself, Im the opposite. I was completely self taught, in the beginning by reading tabs before eventually taking a music theory class, I know *how* to read, but Im slow, and I just dont use it really. I barely know my scales, though I know how to stay in key(mostly). Right now Im playing in an improv band and its going swimmingly well.

[azureblue]

First (duh) listen.

Begin by singing a note. Pick up the bass, and find the note- it's Ok to be off an octave. Repeat until you can sing two or three notes, and find them on the bass with ease.

Put down your bass, then listen to a bass part you want to learn, but make it a simple one to begin with. Listen to it enough until you can sing the bass part- you don't have to do it in the right octave, but you do need to have it in your head.

Now Just sing the first two notes of the part. Pick up your bass, and sing the notes again. Now find the notes on your bass. Once you have done this, find the rest of the notes until you can play the part.

Next, put down the bass again. and sing a bass part you already know how to play. Imagine it in your head just like you play it- hear all the notes, and feel the hands work as if you are actually playing it, until you are clear on the entire tune. Pick up the bass and play the part only once, then put it down. Notice how much more focused on the part you are now? Pay attention to what key the tune is in, then try it with another tune in the same key.

Finally, listen to a bass part, and learn it entirely in your head- do not touch your bass- until you are certain of the pitches. Again, imagine your self playing the part- the shifts, the fingerings, the whole things. Do this until you can play through the part in your head without stopping. Now play it on the bass.

[kb9wyz]

Advice from the Wooten (NOT verbatim)

There are 12 notes in the western scale. Any given (traditional) key uses 7. Therefore there are only 5 "wrong" notes. If you just guess, you will hit a "right" note more than half the time. If you hit a "wrong" note, you're only ever half a step away from a "right" one.

So my contribution:
Play and play and don't worry about right notes or wrong notes. Let your fingers move and let your ears hear. You know your scales, so just go for it. Put on a CD and jam to it and learn to be comfortable with making mistakes. Then do it all over again to another CD.

[TCx]

That advice helped me a little too, azureblue. Thanx.
SMILE!!! TC.x

[Stumbo]

Check out the link in my sig. below for some great TB info that may help you out.

[tycobb73]

What my teacher did for me was taught me a mode, then gave me a chord prorgression to solo over. Once I had a few modes down he gave me a progression utilizing a lot of the modes. You should do this. I think there are sights that have chord progressons to down load and solo over.