practicing the chromatic scale

[dalconthenovice]

so i bought the new victor wooten groove workshop dvd (which rocks by the way) and thres a part in there where victor wooten explains "if theres any scale you shoul dpractice, practice the chromatic scale" and he has anthony play in a key then he played the chromatic scale and victor jammed to it and made it very very musical then anthony switched keys and victor did it again

i'm tryin to figure out how to do this but everytime i do it sounds like i'm just goin up and down the chromatic scale and it sounds like.... i'm just going up and down the chromatic scale and isn't producing any real MUSIC

any of you do this and succeed at it? lemme know your advice n stuffn'

[Ray man]

Try playing chromatic scales around the cycle of fiths or the minor 3rd cycle or the whole tone cycle or any other interval or combination of intervals that you like the sound of.

Lets use the roots of the whole tone scale for example.
C, D, E, F#, Ab, Bb
You can start on C for a few bars, move to D for a few more and keep moving till you compleate the cycle.

[MarkTAW]

Try practicing tone rows.

The idea is that you must use each of the 12 notes before resetting & allowing yourself to use any note again.

To put it simplistically, after you play every note in the major scale, what are you left with? A pentatonic scale. A pentatonic scale where every note relates back to the major scale somehow, even if you're not yet comfortable with how it relates back.

So you can be as musical as you want, but you're forced to use each note. It's a good way to stretch your current way of doing things & force you out of your major/minor/mode/pentatonic/whatever comfort zone since you're allowed to play what you want at the beginning, but eventually you're forced to play notes you wouldn't have otherwise played and learn how to make it work.

There's actually a decent amount of theory out there to handle the chromatic scale, but this should be a good start.

[JOE_MARSH]

I also have the DVD...Victor explains that he loves to find the "OFF NOTES" cause the off notes make the right notes sound so good...a chromatic scale is going to sound very close together...but using all 12 notes lets your ears hear all the possibilties to be played

Just my opinion..but Vic in that section of the DVD is really just trying to get bass players to think outside of just a scale... Anyone can play G Major, but there is 5 other notes that you can use as well...you dont have to only play the 7 notes that are in the key...you can reach outside the box and accomplish more

In my own experience...I had started using the chromatic scale as more of a passing note section... Oh I wanna walk from B to D... Id go B,C,C#,D.. you dont always have to follow te conventional rules that people try to say bass players have to go by...this is just what i started to hear when I first started playing...but it made me think...

I dont want to just use the same standard format for every song..Ive got do something different, something original..use notes that none of my friends are using...

Hope this helps

[JimK]

Originally Posted by dalconthenovice

i'm tryin to figure out how to do this but everytime i do it sounds like i'm just goin up and down the chromatic scale and it sounds like.... i'm just going up and down the chromatic scale and isn't producing any real MUSIC

You're not using enough "2 through 10"...review the DVD!

[Bruce Lindfield]

Well the thing is that a great Jazz improviser can literally make anything resolve - whereas for us lesser mortals it's much harder!

On several occasions I have heard demonstrations from Jazz pros and teachers who have shown how they can play a solo using all the wrong notes, but make it sound OK!

It's about how you resolve things - the classic quote in Jazz is :

There are no wrong notes, only wrong resolutions!

[JimK]

Originally Posted by Bruce Lindfield

On several occasions I have heard demonstrations from Jazz pros and teachers who have shown how they can play a solo using all the wrong notes, but make it sound OK!

On the above DVD, Wooten does that. he uses the 5-non Gmin (pure) notes in a solo over a Gmin progression. He uses only those 5 notes...then he uses the "correct" notes. The "wrong" solo sounded better to those in the clinic (& me, too)...Wooten's explanation: The solo with the "wrong" notes had more "2 through 10" than the solo with the correct notes (more about "notes", less about "2 through 10").

[JimK]

Rhythm, feel, note duration (staccato/legato), phrasing, articulation, dynamics, etc...

[mambo4]

I assume "2 through 10" means musical qualities besides "pitch", which must be number 1.

Personally I think "Practice the Chromatic scale" is rather empty advice for a novice, at least beyond the physical exercise. unless you have already developed an internal familiarity with the sounds of the basic Major, Minor, Mixoliydian and other modes, simply jumping into the chromatic scale and expecting it to sound good will likely fail. Thinking outside the scale is only valuable after you have a good command of thinking inside the scale.

I'll also add that if you take a diatonic scale and play the 5 notes outside of it, you're simply playing the notes of a major pentatonic scale, so sounding melodically consistent in your riffage is going to be fairly easy.

[JimK]

Notes = 1.
On this DVD, Wooten sez just about every school, lesson, etc out there deals primarily with "the notes". He had the class list other things they deemed important...in order to make a Top 10 list. Rhythm, tone, feel, etc became "2 thru 10".
Same kinda thing is mentioned briefly in Mark Levine's book, Jazz Theory. It's been awhile but, IIRC, Levine mentions the 1% that makes the "magic"...and how his book is about the other 99%

[MarkTAW]

Originally Posted by JOE_MARSH

Just my opinion..but Vic in that section of the DVD is really just trying to get bass players to think outside of just a scale... Anyone can play G Major, but there is 5 other notes that you can use as well...you dont have to only play the 7 notes that are in the key...you can reach outside the box and accomplish more

That's what I expected, but since the OP explicitly says 'use the chromatic scale' I didn't want put words in Vic's mouth.

Originally Posted by Bruce Lindfield

Well the thing is that a great Jazz improviser can literally make anything resolve - whereas for us lesser mortals it's much harder!

I'm really beginning to understand this (beginning being the key word - I'm not a Jazz great). I used to chuckle when people said "you're never more than a note away from the right one" but I'm really beginning to get that. Relationship to the chord is more important than whether or not it's in the scale and every interval relates to the chord (or your next chord) somehow.

[Bruce Lindfield]

I think there's one other thing to consider - which is how convincing you are as a player.

So obviously Victor Wooten is incredibly convincing and confident that what he is playing is right - that is how he is hearing it and he can get his audience to hear the same!

Whereas a less confident player might look at that and play exactly the same notes with exactly the same timing etc. - but if he is not hearing it and is therefore not convincing - then he will almost certainly not take the audience with him...

I've seen it in Jazz classes - so the teacher will say - you can play this scale at this point and he sounds fantastic when doing it - cool sophisticated etc.

But then a pupil plays that combination and it just doesn't sound right - he is not hearing it and doesn't believe it - therefore it doesn't work!

[JimK]

...true. Again, Mark Levine's Jazz Theory mentions this-
Be confident in what you're playing.
If you're unsure, it will sound weak...there's a reason Jaco sounded so bold.

[Bruce Lindfield]

That's right - when you hear Jaco come in, on some Joni Mitchell tracks - like the live album - On France etc. - there is such authority and presence - it's like - this is it!