Pro and Semipro players: How much training?

[Roy Vogt]

This is in response to the Theory vs. Feel thread. I'm trying to get some numbers here. Some ground rules:
Pro (or retired Pro): You have made your living or are making your living playing or teaching Bass
Semipro: You have made a significant portion of your income playing or teaching bass-say 20%
The categories are:
Music School
Formal lessons including reading and theory
"Formally self-taught"
Learned by ear
TABS

[Roy Vogt]

Interestingly enough "formally self-taught" includes players like Victor Wooten, Alain Caron (although Alain may have spent time at Berklee-not sure there) and Jaco Pastorius. All three of these guys really studied music on their own with mentors (Jaco), in their bands (Alain), or were in a family of musicians (Victor). They are (or were) what I would call musically literate in that they can read and write music and understand Harmony and can play Jazz.
How you learn may not be as important as what you learn.....

[JTE]

Yeah, I immediately recognized Jaco's quote (from the DCI video interview with Jerry Jemmott) where he said he was "formally self-taught". That's how I learned. I took piano lessons and in my day the school general music programs taught the basics of reading treble clef. I transferred in junior high to another school system that must have taught solfege early on because everytime they introduced a new song the first thing everyone did was sight sing it using "do re mi..." Wish I'd learned THAT one when I was 10 years old..

I took some guitar lessons when I was 15, but after that my learning of bass and music theory started from columns in Guitar Player Magazine (no bass rags around in the olden days) written by Carol Kaye, Howard Roberts, Jeff Berlin, Arnie Berle, and Jimmy Stewart. I supplemented that with an intro to music theory book my first wife had from when she was a vocal performance music major, and a couple of merely OK books that I found while managing a guitar store.

That and WORKING OUT the stuff I was reading in the columns and books on my bass and my guitar. The night I "saw" the relationship between the diatonic major scale and the major chord triad, and then extrapolating to see HOW the I, IV, and V chords all sat neatly within the scale of the tonic. That was such a revelation!!!

John

[JimmyM]

I chose private lessons because I didn't go to post HS music school, but I did have a lot of training in my middle school and high school classes. That's where I learned to read.

[dougjwray]

I was a pro earlier; now I'm semi-pro.

A few months of violin lessons in elementary school.

Taught myself to play guitar and bass by playing along with records. Also taught myself to read music. I'm one of those guys who CAN read, but would fall over if I had to sight read a difficult chart that someone put in front of me. I just don't use those skills frequently enough. Chord charts: no problem sight reading those.

B.A. degree in music (Brandeis University, outside Boston-- 100% classical theory and composition); then two semesters at Berklee College of Music.

I had a year of upright bass lessons with John Neves (at Berklee) and a couple of months of upright lessons with Richard Davis, when he lived in New York.

I've had exactly *one* lesson on electric bass, which is what I've used to make every penny I've earned as a musician. That was with Jaco Pastorius.

So, it's been a slightly twisted path!

[allexcosta]

I took 2 years of classical guitar in a nice music school and 10 or so private lessons from different people, including pianists and drummers...

[Art Araya]

both music school and formally self-taught

[Fergie Fulton]

Had a natural ability for music that was picked up on at an early age (6) I was left to my own devices till started to play cornet formally with silver bands age 9.
I was spotted and put into a fast track programme aged 13 because my ability far exceed my theory with the Scottish Symphony Orchestra and the Scottish Schools Symphony Orchestra with whom i played.
I went through to grade 8, which is the complete course in a few years, i done two sets of exams three times a year. I studied music throughout my high school eventually moving into the horn section playing Tenor.

I was awarded a scholarship at 16 to go to one of the Royal Schools of Music, but turned it down in favour of concentrating on bass. In the last 37 years i have played, toured, recorded, and seen a great deal of this world, making new friends and learning more as i go about life... because of music. I can envisage no situation, in any genre, where music education, or the furthering of it could ever be a bad thing or hold you back...having it gives you the options and choice to use it, not having it gives you no options but to accept your situation.

Sad thing is, i have lost count of the amount of people, not just players, that state a regret that they had not stuck at music lessons as a kid. Its a catch 22, you have to have it to understand its value and worth, and that takes time....but for those that eventuly realise that, they feel its to much work to play catch up, little realising we are always playing catch up to something we will never catch.

[Roy Vogt]

Like a lot of you, I'm a mixed bag-2 music schools, private lessons (heavy on the reading and theory) and lots and lots of "formal self teaching" when the resources weren't there. This is really interesting! Thank you all for your feedback!

[Richard Lindsey]

Another mixed bag: years of private lessons, some college-level courses, and a lot of "formal self-teaching."

[Ed Fuqua]

You can only choose 1 entry on the poll, so I didn't choose any.
I went to Berklee.
I studied privately with a number of different teachers, for the last 14(?) years with Joe Solomon.
I attended master class/seminar/workshops (some as long as three weeks, some as short as a day) with Bill Barron, Clifford Jordan, Junior Mance, Elvin Jones, Charlie Haden.
I continue to learn things from musicians I play with and hear in NYC.

[JayB]

Mixed bag as well. Some music store guitar lessons, a bunch of vocal training in high school, a little college level instructions including theory, a bunch of playing experience with guys who had more formal training than myself who taught me the ropes, and a ton of private DB lessons that continue to this day.

[Fergie Fulton]

I see a lot of self teaching mentioned, i also taught myself certain aspects of music even though i did not mention it because i did not see the relevance....but maybe there is.

So the question i would ask is did your formal music education/lessons stimulate this desire to learn more on your own.

For me, because i understood more, i could rationalise more information, sort out the good from the bad, start at a higher point on the music i was listening to. This led me to seek out different types of music to see if there were similarities between them, and ultimatly seek out more challaging forms of music. The decision of what and how i play was mine to make because i explored better options in my listening and playing.

For someone with no formal education/training moving out of their comfort zone is a daunting and sometimes overwhelming task because they cannot rationalize the benifit of learning new ideas and skills.

[Rebop]

Started as formally self taught but later had lessons and went to school for music for a couple years (no degree but got to study with some great teachers. Lessons were also a must once I took up playing the standup bass seriously). Started playing too many gigs to keep up with school unfortunately and dropped it. I will go back someday.

[Mayers]

I'm no longer a pro or semi-pro but I took 4 years of private lesson and then 3 years at college to get a degree on the upright bass.

After that I was in a band and so I was self-taught many technic like slap and tapping that I never learn in a more formal way.

Now, I have a hard time with non academic aspect of music.

[odin70]

I went to music school for 4 years. and i regret it. There is not that much work for us music teachers and the pay is not that good. Its a lousy deal.. If i could go back in time i would have studied computers or something lie that (for a year) Take a part time job with good income and play as much as possible during weekends etc.

[LiamPodmore]

I studied in a class with 2 or 3 guitarists for about a year and a half, half an hour a week during the school terms (September - July) up until about 2 years ago when i had to stop so i just practiced at home teaching myself and played with my band since then. So i'm another one with multiple.

Liam

[carl h.]

What about someone who went to school to teach music, took multiple years of private lessons on many instruments and then taught themselves to play bass? Used the money earned from playing other instruments as a full time pro player part time music teacher to buy basses, any now is a semi retired pro musician who gigs mostly as a bassist?

[progmanjum]

I believe Roy is talking about the thread I started.
Roy did a much better job of getting his point across. This is the information I was actually looking for. I chose a poor title and things went awry from there. That must be why he's a teacher and I have to re-explain my posts.

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by progmanjum

I believe Roy is talking about the thread I started.
Roy did a much better job of getting his point across. This is the information I was actually looking for. I chose a poor title and things went awry from there. That must be why he's a teacher and I have to re-explain my posts.

It happens.