Probably my WORST HABIT!!!!

xLowEndx · #1 05-13-2009, 07:49 PM

Hi, please help me!!!!

I was taught a few years ago about the major modes and how they correspond with the chord symbols. My issue is that all I did was memorize the patterns and now I have a severe case of muscle memory, and that's it.

I understand the theory behind it for the most part but couldn't tell you the 6 note in a G Lydian scale (example) with out a bass in my hands or thinking about it for a few seconds. I saw the thread about Pacman's practice method and was curious if I could use some more help.

This was really hurting me in the Jazz Improv class.

onlyclave · #2 05-13-2009, 08:49 PM

I'd be willing to bet that you have a worse habit than that and that would be you learned all of those major mode patterns from tabs, am I right?

xLowEndx · #3 05-13-2009, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onlyclave

I'd be willing to bet that you have a worse habit than that and that would be you learned all of those major mode patterns from tabs, am I right?

Actually nope. I played saxophone in the fourth grade so learned how to read music well. I learned them all in the key of C so no flats or sharps and just learned the pattern. I also played the double bass in my High School orchestra so more sheet music . . . no tabs.

I'm familiar with reading charts for piano so no transposing but still having to read treble clef.

To be honest this and learning the keys and such is really my WORST HABIT. Any ideas???

Jaydin Nathan · #4 05-14-2009, 12:47 AM

It's really not THAT bad of a habit, as you're making it out to be. No one is going to ask you what the sixth note of a G Lydian scale need to know it in a split second. You should know that it will be the Major 6th of G, which is...(thinks for a few seconds)..E! But memorizing every possible note and interval is really not necessary. It's important to know if it's the 6th,4th, 3rd, etc. and also the quality - ie. major, minor, perfect - but it's not a major deal if you can't recall it after thinking for a few seconds.

DudeistMonk · #5 05-14-2009, 07:05 AM

I'm in the same boat...But I'm doing a music theory 2 workbook atm and in just a few chapters I can feel myself getting quicker with keys and chords by name/notes.

At the beginning of the book I would have to envision my fretboard to tell you what notes where in a Bb Major triad, now I think of it like B=diminished in C--->major=diminshed sharp3, sharp5--->Bbmaj=Bb,D,F. I'm hoping by the end of the book I can just spout out chords from the memory banks.

RobertPaulson · #6 05-14-2009, 07:11 AM

I get that a lot too, if you asked me to tell you how to play all of my bands songs I don't think I could do it without a bass in my hand.

PRUNEFACE · #7 05-14-2009, 09:14 AM

That isn't a bad habit... No one is expected to be able to list the notes without thinking for a second (not that it is impossible) unless it is your job ie. teacher or composer

xLowEndx · #8 05-14-2009, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheJaydin

It's really not THAT bad of a habit, as you're making it out to be. No one is going to ask you what the sixth note of a G Lydian scale need to know it in a split second.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PRUNEFACE

That isn't a bad habit... No one is expected to be able to list the notes without thinking for a second (not that it is impossible) unless it is your job ie. teacher or composer

I agree but I only have them in memory by patterns, root to octave. When I was going to school for jazz studies it blew me way as to how much I needed to know other than the pattern. If I was trying to aim for the 3rd or 7th of a chord everything sounded so scaler that it didn't sound like a solo, just me playing my scales and then stopping on a given note.

I'm not looking for any soloing tips, just maybe a response from someone who has overcome this and or knows how to. Thanks though to all the responses, it shows you guys want to help.

onlyclave · #9 05-14-2009, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xLowEndx

I agree but I only have them in memory by patterns, root to octave. When I was going to school for jazz studies it blew me way as to how much I needed to know other than the pattern. If I was trying to aim for the 3rd or 7th of a chord everything sounded so scaler that it didn't sound like a solo, just me playing my scales and then stopping on a given note.

I'm not looking for any soloing tips, just maybe a response from someone who has overcome this and or knows how to. Thanks though to all the responses, it shows you guys want to help.

Just grab a blank piece of staff paper and start writing them out ascending and descending over 2 octaves. It's a lot of busy work but after you get to the 30th scale you've written out you'll probably see the patterns emerge within the pitches.

Once you've written 7 modes x 12 keys you'll have 84 different things to play. Step one is to play all of them on one string (if possible. Eb might be kind of hard on a 4-string bass). Step two is now to play them over 2 octaves using only 2 strings, then 3 strings.

Pacman's method works well if you 1) Know all the notes of the scales you're playing cold or 2) Know all of the notes on the instrument cold.

GrindYourMind · #10 05-14-2009, 12:03 PM

Welcome to my world. I can play over just about any chord vamp but god help me if I can tell you what notes, scales, modes etc I am actually using.

edit - I only passed my jazz and class piano with like, Cs but I got As in bass performance!!

DudeistMonk · #11 05-14-2009, 12:08 PM

Quote:

I agree but I only have them in memory by patterns, root to octave. When I was going to school for jazz studies it blew me way as to how much I needed to know other than the pattern. If I was trying to aim for the 3rd or 7th of a chord everything sounded so scaler that it didn't sound like a solo, just me playing my scales and then stopping on a given note.

I'm not looking for any soloing tips, just maybe a response from someone who has overcome this and or knows how to. Thanks though to all the responses, it shows you guys want to help.

Search u-tube for Havic5's bass solo lessons...he is a TB so you could also search this forum.

He has this great eye opening bit in part 2 about how to think of the diatonic chord tones as scale tones so you can always see the fretboard in terms of key instead of chord, that I see a lot of potential for myself in once I get around to practicing it.

Ie: in the key of C major if you have a D minor7 which is the ii chord so the chord tones of the D minor7 are the 1,2,4 and 6 of the C major scale.

xLowEndx · #12 05-14-2009, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrindYourMind

Welcome to my world. I can play over just about any chord vamp but god help me if I can tell you what notes, scales, modes etc I am actually using.

edit - I only passed my jazz and class piano with like, Cs but I got As in bass performance!!

That's exactly what I got my first year in college. My HS band director said I'd do great at college cuz I had (and still do) the chops but never taught us theory so that really left me behind, not that I'm blaming him at all.

GrindYourMind · #13 05-14-2009, 12:21 PM

My instructors have taught me the theory, it's just that my brain is like a brick wall.

xLowEndx · #14 05-14-2009, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DudeistMonk

Search u-tube for Havic5's bass solo lessons....

Got it, he makes a lot of sense, not a bad teacher. If you're out there Havic5, thanks.