The problem I would have with a teacher

[stratovani]

I've read a boatload of threads here on TB extolling the virtues of getting a teacher. Wise advice, I'm sure. So I've been thinking about it for a while, and I can't think for the life of me what I would say to a teacher on our first meeting.

Teacher: "So, what are you doing here? What do you want to learn?"
stratovani: "I dunno!"
Teacher: "So you're throwing good money at me and you don't know what you want me to teach?"
stratovani: "I guess it looks that way."

As far as my playing goes, I'm in a band, I know how to groove and keep good time, I can come up with some decent bass lines at a moment's notice. My playing technique is good, although I do get a bit tired at times. I've got a good working grasp of music theory, enough to get by. My sight reading is rudimentary, but I can always get a book to explain things to me. So before I plunk down $50 or more for a single lesson I've got to have a good reason to get me a teacher. And so far I havn't been able to come up with one.

[Jim Campbell]

Originally Posted by stratovani

I've read a boatload of threads here on TB extolling the virtues of getting a teacher. Wise advice, I'm sure. So I've been thinking about it for a while, and I can't think for the life of me what I would say to a teacher on our first meeting.

Teacher: "So, what are you doing here? What do you want to learn?"
stratovani: "I dunno!"
Teacher: "So you're throwing good money at me and you don't know what you want me to teach?"
stratovani: "I guess it looks that way."

As far as my playing goes, I'm in a band, I know how to groove and keep good time, I can come up with some decent bass lines at a moment's notice. My playing technique is good, although I do get a bit tired at times. I've got a good working grasp of music theory, enough to get by. My sight reading is rudimentary, but I can always get a book to explain things to me. So before I plunk down $50 or more for a single lesson I've got to have a good reason to get me a teacher. And so far I havn't been able to come up with one.

a good teacher will know what to teach,and figure out where exactly you are on the journey.....a teacher that allows the student to drive the bus is not the one you want.....the trick is to find a good teacher and then let him teach..... if you are a motivated,attentive student a good teacher will be worth much more than you will pay him.....

[Govier966]

i have the exact same problem man, teachers should have there lesson plans in advance.

[rosanne]

Are you 100% satisfied with your playing? If not then where are you dissatisfied? Tell the teacher.

Really though, the first thing he will probably ask is for you to play something.

[Spin Doctor]

Why do people think that they need to know what to learn before they learn it? If you go to calculus class, do you tell the teacher what you want to know about calculus?

The teachers job is to teach. You learn the principles, then apply them. The only reason to tell a teacher what you want to know is to try to find some shortcut. Guess what? There ain't one...

If you think you've got it all figured out, you probably don't. But if you're ok with it, why ask the question?

[JtheJazzMan]

Teaching is a 2 way street. The "teacher" learns as well as the student.

General chit chat will let your teacher know youre about and if they are suitable they will give you salient info.

Teachers arent universal teachers either. I had a student wanting me to teach them tapping...which Im not proficient enough with. I was honest about it, gave the student some tips but they moved on soon enough.

It makes the teachers job 10000x easier when the student brings questions along.

[ridgeback]

get the right teacher and be open minded and start from scratch..as much as you think you know with the right teacher and the right attitude you will see you actually dont know that much at all..everyone likes to think they are good (myself too) but the fact is until you admit to yourself you need work you will never improve..3 months with the right teacher for you, you will learn more than 2 years by yourself..but its all about attitude and working at your problems..i am playing years(more than your living i would bet) and i still take lessons from time to time..there is no shame learning from a teacher/better player..

[Kipaste]

I don't think you need to know that answer. If the teacher is any good, he'll be able to pinpoint what you need to work on pretty quickly.

However, if you're satisfied with your playing and think you're in a good spot doing everything you need to do as well as you'd like to, then I'd say don't get lessons. The world is full of great musicians who aren't really trained.

For me, lessons were great. I had a great teacher who really alongside teaching really broadened my views on music and introduced me to many styles of music I would've never listened and analyzed without his help.

[Steve Dixon]

the whole point of a teacher is to identify things you weren't aware you needed to work on

if fact you shouldn't be paying a teacher good money to tell you about areas you already know you need to work on

[stratovani]

Originally Posted by Steve Dixon

the whole point of a teacher is to identify things you weren't aware you needed to work on

if fact you shouldn't be paying a teacher good money to tell you about areas you already know you need to work on

That's the problem. My right-hand and left-hand techniques are good enough to allow me to do what I need to do, and for the style of music I play - original Contemporary Christian music - the notes I play are sufficient to do the job of holding down the bottom. I'm really not aware of any area I might need help on at the moment, and the things I'd like to learn, like sight-reading, can be covered in any number of excellent instructional books. I guess I'm just afraid if looking like a complete idiot in front of a teacher ("Duhh, I don't know what I want!").

Just one quick question that might be of help - do teachers have first free consultations, like lawyers? That would go a long way towards curing the "Duhh, I don't know what I want!" syndrome. Then the teacher could either say (if he's honest) that I don't need him for now, or he sees some flaws that he could help me with.

[Billnc]

Originally Posted by stratovani

That's the problem. My right-hand and left-hand techniques are good enough to allow me to do what I need to do, and for the style of music I play - original Contemporary Christian music - the notes I play are sufficient to do the job of holding down the bottom. I'm really not aware of any area I might need help on at the moment, and the things I'd like to learn, like sight-reading, can be covered in any number of excellent instructional books. I guess I'm just afraid if looking like a complete idiot in front of a teacher ("Duhh, I don't know what I want!").

Just one quick question that might be of help - do teachers have first free consultations, like lawyers? That would go a long way towards curing the "Duhh, I don't know what I want!" syndrome. Then the teacher could either say (if he's honest) that I don't need him for now, or he sees some flaws that he could help me with.

Be careful that with a teacher you start thinking "I don't need to know that" If all you want to do is what you're doing then you are fine. Study music, how it works, harmony, walking lines and jazz soloing. That along with some stylistic things like Latin rythms or funk will take you a long way. Over half of what students think they want is bogus anyway.

[Jazzdogg]

A simple three-step approach to pedagogy:

1. Where are you now (assessment)?

2. Where do you want to end up (goals)?

3. How do you get from here to there (plan of action)?

IME, most students aren't in a position to assess their own skills, don't know what they don't know, and can't see their strengths and weaknesses objectively.

If you select a qualified teacher, he'll select an appropriate course of study for you.

If you don't know where you're going, any road will take you there.

[stratovani]

Originally Posted by Jazzdogg

A simple three-step approach to pedagogy:

1. Where are you now (assessment)?

2. Where do you want to end up (goals)?

3. How do you get from here to there (plan of action)?

IME, most students aren't in a position to assess their own skills, don't know what they don't know, and can't see their strengths and weaknesses objectively.

If you select a qualified teacher, he'll select an appropriate course of study for you.

If you don't know where you're going, any road will take you there.

Wise words!

[narud]

Originally Posted by Jazzdogg

A simple three-step approach to pedagogy:

1. Where are you now (assessment)?

2. Where do you want to end up (goals)?

3. How do you get from here to there (plan of action)?

IME, most students aren't in a position to assess their own skills, don't know what they don't know, and can't see their strengths and weaknesses objectively.

If you select a qualified teacher, he'll select an appropriate course of study for you.

If you don't know where you're going, any road will take you there.

if youre an adult and can already play, something brought you in there for a lesson. if you were willingly putting down your own money, youve got to have something, somewhere in there that was the reason you decided to take a lesson. hence the "why are you here? or what do you want to learn?" question. granted, the reason that brought them in there, might not even be where the lessons go, but the question lets me know where the persons head is at.

[narud]

Originally Posted by stratovani

I've read a boatload of threads here on TB extolling the virtues of getting a teacher. Wise advice, I'm sure. So I've been thinking about it for a while, and I can't think for the life of me what I would say to a teacher on our first meeting.

Teacher: "So, what are you doing here? What do you want to learn?"
stratovani: "I dunno!"
Teacher: "So you're throwing good money at me and you don't know what you want me to teach?"
stratovani: "I guess it looks that way."

As far as my playing goes, I'm in a band, I know how to groove and keep good time, I can come up with some decent bass lines at a moment's notice. My playing technique is good, although I do get a bit tired at times. I've got a good working grasp of music theory, enough to get by. My sight reading is rudimentary, but I can always get a book to explain things to me. So before I plunk down $50 or more for a single lesson I've got to have a good reason to get me a teacher. And so far I havn't been able to come up with one.

well, youve arrived, you dont need lessons j/k

if anything, lessons give you the regimented program to follow through with something. yes theres a lot of information out there that you can figure out on your own, but the self motivation to follow through with it is difficult. when your paying someone, theres a pretty good reason to keep moving forward unless you like burning money.

[Longshot]

I have tought music for over 12 years and the one thing I always go back to is that every student has a different place they want to end up. For me that is the prime directive. Most of the time students don't know where that is. The fun is exploring that together.

My suggestion is approach all your studies in that way. Pick a destination and explore getting there with you instructor. You will find that the journey is better than getting there.

[Jazzdogg]

Originally Posted by Longshot

I have tought music for over 12 years and the one thing I always go back to is that every student has a different place they want to end up. For me that is the prime directive. Most of the time students don't know where that is. The fun is exploring that together.

My suggestion is approach all your studies in that way. Pick a destination and explore getting there with you instructor. You will find that the journey is better than getting there.

+1

We all have blind spots, and tend to practice the stuff we like and that we're good at, and tend not to see the weaknesses that can result when we avoid practicing the stuff that's necessary, but difficult, tedious, or boring. A qualified instructor assesses the student's skills, abilities, and interests dispassionately, while paying attention to the things about which their students are passionate.

I've seen case after case of students hitting a brick wall and plateauing until they were challenged to "eat their vegatables." Those who mustered enough self-discipline to consistently work on the hard stuff inevitably saw marked improvements, while those who coasted and took the easy path usually ended up going downhill.

[E2daGGurl]

As a teacher (formerly, a music teacher), I can say that any good teacher will have your lesson ready for you.

If you can already read rhythm and note from a score, and you've got jazz charts down, there's lots of other things to work on.

You can read musically perfectly, right? And transpose readily to a different key?

Good - then let's start working with improvised rhythmic lines.

And check to make sure you know what some other musician means when they ask you play bossa nova vs. samba.

You *are* hoping to play with lots of different musicians in your life, right?

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by stratovani

I've read a boatload of threads here on TB extolling the virtues of getting a teacher. Wise advice, I'm sure. So I've been thinking about it for a while, and I can't think for the life of me what I would say to a teacher on our first meeting.

Teacher: "So, what are you doing here? What do you want to learn?"
stratovani: "I dunno!"
Teacher: "So you're throwing good money at me and you don't know what you want me to teach?"
stratovani: "I guess it looks that way."

boy oh boy! strato, i've seen enough of you on here to know you're not given to troll posting, but if it were someone else i'd swear it was a troll post.

but enough people have given you the correct reply that i don't need to tell you much more. suffice it to say that most teachers know way more about what you need to learn than you do, and any teacher worth his/her salt knows how to proceed with you, no matter what silly scenario you've concocted in your mind about it.

[stratovani]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

boy oh boy! strato, i've seen enough of you on here to know you're not given to troll posting, but if it were someone else i'd swear it was a troll post.

but enough people have given you the correct reply that i don't need to tell you much more. suffice it to say that most teachers know way more about what you need to learn than you do, and any teacher worth his/her salt knows how to proceed with you, no matter what silly scenario you've concocted in your mind about it.

Jimmy, you and your avatar remind me of Triumph the Insult Comic Dog! But I still love reading your posts! They give me a good laugh while still speaking the truth!

No, I'm not looking to troll or anything. It's how I really feel about confronting a teacher for the first time. I'm just afraid I'll freeze up and not know what to say. I think it was Socrates who said "Know thyself!", and that should probably be anyone's first priority in choosing to use a teacher. I guess I'm still trying to find myself. When I feel I'm ready (whenever that will be) I'll present myself to a teacher in an intelligent manner.