Problems with walking bass

[trasser]

Hi guys.

I want to learn how to play walking bass. I've read most of Ed Friedlands book, and I have a teacher thats trying to teach me the way of the walking bass lines as well.
Nnow, my problem isn't to create walking bass lines, if I'm given the time. I can fairly easily sit down and write down a bass line that sounds good. But, what I want to learn is to open a realbook at random and then be able to play a bassline straight from the heart.
I can't do this at all. When i read the chord progression, I can't play more than two maybe three bars of walking bass before I am totally lost. I then get discouraged very easy.
What should my approach be to learning to play walking bass lines from the heart and by improvising instead of having to write everything down?

[MichaelScott]

Originally Posted by trasser

But, what I want to learn is to open a realbook at random and then be able to play a bassline straight from the heart.
I can't do this at all. When i read the chord progression, I can't play more than two maybe three bars of walking bass before I am totally lost.

Join the club. I've been working on walking real book tunes for the last couple of years. It takes time, practice, and experiance to be able to open up a real book and walk it.

[trasser]

Okay. Get that. But how do I practice right? I can't seem to identify the intervals of the chordprogression when I also have to concentrate on what notes I play on my bass.

[MichaelScott]

I have a Yamaha QY-20 music Sequencer. I type in the chord progressions and it plays a drum beat and piano chords over the changes. Then I walk over it. I spend about an hour a day on it and I am slowly getting better. It takes a while.

[Freddels]

Walking bass is a lifelong endeavor. Since you have Ed Friedland's books already, they you have some good stuff to work with.

Go back to Ed's book and do the Root exercises and then the Root - 5th stuff. Do that for every chord, every key. Then move to the next one. Learn ex 6 and do it in the keys of F and then Bb (you can learn it in all keys later but start with those two keys).

Don't be afraid to double the notes (Ray Brown did this quite a bit).

Also, you need to listen to a lot of the great walking bass players (Ray Brown, Paul Chambers, Ron Carter, Rufus Reid, etc.).

Todd Johnson's DVD on walking bass lines comes highly recommended by others on this forum.

It does take time and lots of practice.

[wisemonkey]

Here's my great practice tip for walking bass lines.
Start by playing one note per bar, just the root. When you've got familiar with that, try a two feel - just roots and fifths. Explore the options of playing the fifth above or below the root. When you're comfortable with that then add the third, so you are 'spelling out' the basic chord shape. If you want to play 4 quarter notes you can play RR35. When you can walk through the tune using triad chord shapes experiment with going up and down the scale and using chromatic notes (moving up or down one fret at a time so you land on the next root on beat 1). If you find a pattern that works in one tune, chances are it'll work in others. You just have to build up your vocabulary. It won't come together overnight but if you keep at it you'll get there.
Hope that helps

[Alvaro Martín Gómez A.]

Aside from good fingerboard knowledge, I think that knowing the tune is a great help to get a good walking bassline. I remember that some years ago, when playing in a jazz band from the university, the leader brought an arrangement of "Caravan", which is a fast be-bop style tune. After the intro, it goes with 16 bars (I think) of C7 and then falls on the center key (Fm). I wasn't familiar with the tune at that time, and it was a real hassle to keep counting measures while playing improvised quarter notes over the C7 chord at that tempo (like 280 BPM, IIRC). After I got to hear the tune and learn the melody, I felt very comfortable since I just had to listen to the band while playing. BTW, I felt like Luke Skywalker using "The Force" while playing that (again, because of the tempo), since every time I tried to look at the fingerboard or think on what note should I use, it sounded like a mistake to me.

[trasser]

Thanks a million guys, really appreciate it.

[steveb98]

The problem I see in how many teach Walking is they show these long lines. Break tunes down to common elements, work up default lines to use on those elements. For example long (bar each chord) II-V accending and same decending, short (two beats each chord) II-V accending and decending. One bar of a I chord again accending and decending. Now mix things up a bit long II-V with accending II and decending V, and reverse. Do the same for minor II-V-I. Do that you have your starting point for any Real Book tune. Then you can develop your line adding approach notes, octave shifts, and etc.

Being able to Walking a Real Book tune first time you see it is similar to learning to sightread. In sightreading you have to learn to recognize rhythms and know what they sound like, like reading words in this reply. You need to learn to look at chord changes the same way. There aren't as many common chord movements as there are rhythms. If you have a pocketful of Walking bass fragments that easily pieces together on the spot your set. Then you just need to know a few modes to handle Modal tunes.

So for bassline have small pieces of lines worked out to fit together. To know which piece to use learn look at bigger piece (couple bars at a time) and spot common chord movements.

[pajohnso58]

Thanks for this question. It is one I have struggled with for years and continue to struggle with.

I worked with a teacher for a year on walking jazz, but didn't get very far because I had no opportunity to put into practice the things I was learning. I just joined the Jazz Ensemble at a local community college. There are two other bass players (who are much better at it than I) and we share the rehearsal time. Since I play electric, I bring a headphone amp and headphones to the rehearsals so that I can fumble along while the other players are up front. It is a very humbling experience when I am up front (pretty much a trainwreck), but I feel that by the end of the semester I should suck less. The leader said that I will get to play on 1-2 tunes for our end of semester performance. He also offered me lessons which I will probably take him up on.

[dougjwray]

Since you've studied Ed's methods and understand theory, my guess is that it's an "ear" problem. If you have access to a chordal instrument like guitar or piano, I'd recommend turning on a metronome or drum machine, opening the Real Book to a random tune, and playing the chords. If you fumble, keep going-- don't lose the pulse. (Start at a very slow tempo, if necessary.) You want to get the sound of the chord changes in your head.<--MAIN OBJECTIVE.
What you're trying to do is craft lines that tailor themselves to different harmonic rhythms -- and different tension/release patterns.
And, as someone else said, listen relentlessly to Ray Brown, Paul Chambers, Rufus Reid and the rest (I'd add Richard Davis and NHOP). After awhile, you'll start to absorb the language.
Hope this helps, and good luck!

[Freddels]

The breaking down the lines advice by Steve is good. I used to do this quite a bit. I would find some two bar sequence that was walking through a ii-7 V7 progression and I would learn it in all 12 keys. Then get some that will resolve to the Imaj7 and do the same. Then find some for Imaj7 vi-7 ii-7 V7 and do the same. If you have several of these different patterns under your fingers for all 12 keys you are able to mix and match them and pretty soon you will find yourself playing some nice walking bass lines.

LISTEN, LISTEN, LISTEN to walking bass!

[Carlo Tanori]

Originally Posted by dougjwray

Since you've studied Ed's methods and understand theory, my guess is that it's an "ear" problem. If you have access to a chordal instrument like guitar or piano, I'd recommend turning on a metronome or drum machine, opening the Real Book to a random tune, and playing the chords. If you fumble, keep going-- don't lose the pulse. (Start at a very slow tempo, if necessary.) You want to get the sound of the chord changes in your head.<--MAIN OBJECTIVE.
What you're trying to do is craft lines that tailor themselves to different harmonic rhythms -- and different tension/release patterns.
And, as someone else said, listen relentlessly to Ray Brown, Paul Chambers, Rufus Reid and the rest (I'd add Richard Davis and NHOP). After awhile, you'll start to absorb the language.
Hope this helps, and good luck!

+1. About NHOP, have you heard his early Pablo Live recordings from Montreux 77 with Benny Carter & Oscar Peterson? OMG! Those are incredible!

Carlo

[Norwegianwood]

Just break up the chords. Play the triads and add the seventh.

I pretty much suck at walking bass too, cuz I tend to repeat myself way too much. But I can sight read most standards decent enough to not make a fool out of me or the band. But once you know all the tones of the chords, it´s easy to hear the right notes in between. Also play chromatic and diatonic approach notes.

Once you get the chords down, break down the different chords progressions and play scales. Then you can combine the two.

Oh, and the root-fift-approach exersise is surely a nice one too.

[PocketGroove82]

Pick a song outta the book that has only one chord per bar.
Then practice arpeggiating the chord (without tensions), in time with a recording. You should be able to spell every chord you see without having to sit down and think, and you should be able to arpeggiate those chords just as fast.
But arping. over some chords starting on each root doesn't make a walking bass line, although it will get the chord tones under your fingers. Which is a good start.

[SBassman]

Everyone gave good advice.

It's 3 elements:

1. Some knowledge - which you seem to have covered properly with something like Friedland's materials.

2. Lots of listening to other great players.

3. Just Doing it over and over. Collect yourself some backing tracks - playjazznow.com and Aebersold are two good sources - and play to them regulary. Eventually, the comfort level will rise and the lines will come.

[dougjwray]

I just want to say a bit more about why I think listening is so important.
I got my jazz schooling after my classical schooling. The classical theory included lots of counterpoint and study of Bach's bass lines, so I was very well prepared to write -- and improvise -- walking bass lines that fit harmonically. The problem was, while I could "color inside the lines" without any problem, my playing was boring and dry. What I was playing was based on the math (okay-- G7... that means I need to play a B and a F, and definitely not a C) and on eyesight (seeing the changes on the page as they came up, without really hearing them).
Since music is a language, you have to hear it to pick up all the nuances, slang, implied meanings, etc., just like spoken language. You can learn spelling and grammar from a textbook, but you have to hear people have conversations when you're a child, and read a lot of different writers' works later on, to internalize the language and be able to create some alive out of it, yourself.
So that's why I recommend: 1) playing the chords on a chordal instrument, to learn how various changes sound, and 2) listening over and over to the masters, to hear how they "speak." Transcribing is great, too, but just listening (using one sense at a time) is the best. (IMO)

[Throckmorten]

Learning what notes to play, what notes sound good, what to avoid, are all things the books and your ear will teach you. Heaven knows just that much is a full time job. But you can punch your way through the tunes with it. (well, maybe till you get to 16 bars of aeolian in So What)

Then there are the little tricks to add a little life to the line: triplets, dead notes, skips etc.

There's another factor, call it Intonation. It has more impact on fretless but it's there with fretted as well. It has to do with how long you hold the notes, your attack, how you let the note decay. It's technique and it involves both hands. It's what makes the difference between a rote line and a musical line.

You could argue that it's part of all bass playing, and it is, but it seems a walking line will show it of (or damn the lack of it) more quickly than many others.

Mastering it usually means slowing down till you get it.

[SBassman]

Can anyone tell me more about the Friedland book?
I have always avoided it, because I believe it is in standard notation. [Please - no speeches on learning to read - I don't have enough days left on the planet]

But, these days, I sometimes buy books even with standard notation as long as all the exercises are recorded. [I'd rather work on my ear than my sight]

Are all the exercises in the Friedland Walking book recorded?

[Norwegianwood]

Originally Posted by SBassman

I have always avoided it, because I believe it is in standard notation. [Please - no speeches on learning to read - I don't have enough days left on the planet]

I´m sure your walking will improve much faster if you also learn how to read. I mean, if the lessons are straightforward it´s only quarter notes in the two first positions anyway. I´m sure you will gain the time you "lose" on learning to read again in no time.
There, I just gave a speech